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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5377869" data-attributes="member: 18280">Do I know this story?I assumed that what you presented in your post was accurate -- hours of chargen, no actions, please gen again.  Now, apparently, there were actions.  Just not combat actions.  How is one to know that?Now you're just making things up.  ANY system can give good results, if used well, just as ANY system can give bad results if used poorly.  Having aired enough criticisms about 3e on EN World in the past, I certainly agree that it is a system that can be used poorly.  And it isn't rocket science to realize that intricate chargen is of interest to those who already know the system, because they can take advantage of it and play it as a mini-game.  If you prefer a system with intricate chargen, it is best to use pregens for a new player, let them learn the system, and then let them learn chargen once they are capable of making informed choices about something they are already invested in.  That has nothing to do with System A being better than System B.  It has to do with understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the system you are using.Even though ANY SYSTEM might fight you if you want to obtain certain results, a good GM realizes this and understands it.  It is a poor workman who blames his tools.  This is true even if his tools are flawed....if for no reason than that all tools are, to some degree or another, flawed.I was also pretty clear about what I consider the best way to introduce a potential new player for the game.  One does not have to start "an entirely new campaign" -- one should be willing to play a few seperate sessions to teach the game before throwing the player to the wolves.(Assuming, of course, that retaining the player is a desired outcome.  If not, throw away, and get the results you got!  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> )Just one more thing worth looking at:Slow or fast chargen has nothing to do with whether or not the character is a "meaningless cipher" or if there is "depth" in the game.  Indeed, we have examined your "more depth" claim on several occasions, and you have been unable to demonstrate any extra depth your game has over those who do things like (1) allow character deaths, (2) have faster character generation, of (3) have longer-lasting campaigns.OTOH, you have posted that you are a lazy DM, you don't like to do background work, you don't trust other DMs, and that you seldom game with the same people for long.  These things make me conclude that there is something Hussar-related about Hussar's problems.  Despite your lamenting my "one true way" (although I'd be curious to hear what you think that way is), I am a big proponent of the following:(1)  As a GM, if you can get players to play, then you can run whatever you want, however you want.(Which also means, even if there is something Hussar-related about Hussar's problems, so long as you can draw players, you should still run what you like.  But, if you find players leaving after their first try to be a problem, you should also consider what Hussar can do about that.)(2)  As a player or GM, if you don't like a game, don't play it.  Life is too short for bad games.If that's the "one true way" you mean when you say "this morass of Raven Crowking yet again trying to prove the superiority of his one true way", then Guilty as Charged.  I do, deeply and truly, believe that spending time with any entertainment you don't like is foolish.  At best.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />RC</blockquote>

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