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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6328088" data-attributes="member: 42582">Just adding my voice to&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=11821]Obryn[/MENTION] and&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=23935]Nagol[/MENTION] in reply - you can spend a lot of feats taking your WIS to 20 and you still have pretty poor saves (because of the lack of proficiency).And as&nbsp; [MENTION=5889]Stalker0[/MENTION] noted, the effects of failing a save can be quite severe.In my 4e game (currently at 26th level) we use the various defence feats (though with a houseruled cap on how much you can get from &quot;Epic *&quot;, to let it supplement a low stat but not buff an already high stat). But we don't use Expertise. And so far the PCs attacks have kept up (combat advantage, the +1 from Battlefield Archer, the +3 from Demonskin Adept Action Point power, etc).So I'm open to the possibility. But in 4e I can see (and from the beginning of the game, could see) where a +1 to +3 gap might be made up. Where in Basic is the ability coming from to make up a 6-point gap? That's what I can't see.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6328088, member: 42582"] Just adding my voice to [MENTION=11821]Obryn[/MENTION] and [MENTION=23935]Nagol[/MENTION] in reply - you can spend a lot of feats taking your WIS to 20 and you still have pretty poor saves (because of the lack of proficiency). And as [MENTION=5889]Stalker0[/MENTION] noted, the effects of failing a save can be quite severe. In my 4e game (currently at 26th level) we use the various defence feats (though with a houseruled cap on how much you can get from "Epic *", to let it supplement a low stat but not buff an already high stat). But we don't use Expertise. And so far the PCs attacks have kept up (combat advantage, the +1 from Battlefield Archer, the +3 from Demonskin Adept Action Point power, etc). So I'm open to the possibility. But in 4e I can see (and from the beginning of the game, could see) where a +1 to +3 gap might be made up. Where in Basic is the ability coming from to make up a 6-point gap? That's what I can't see. [/QUOTE]

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