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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 6329062" data-attributes="member: 957">I think the big difference here is a comparison between who is expected to win in the end and the dramatic tension along the way.It is certainly true that there is a well established history of strong jawed white guys with sword (or gun) in hand overcoming the vile enemy and his suspicious powers.  Many of us grew up rooting for that hero.  But along the way we feared for the hero.  Deep down, we knew he would win in the end.  But we feared that if the evil wizard could blast/charm/freeze our hero first then the day may be lost.  And sometimes thing would look really bad for the hero.  And only after defeat does the hero come back for glorious victory.  What we didn’t think at the beginning of the story was “no problem, even if the wizard does cast his charm spell on the hero, he would look that bad guy in the eye and tell him ‘not today’.”  If the wizard was able to target the hero, then we knew the hero was in bad trouble.  We didn’t think “he just needs to roll a 6 or better, no problem.”As we grew older and saw more and more stories we certainly became more accustomed to the routine and more cynical.  If the hero fights a giant viper we know that a bite means death, but we also don’t fear because we know the bite won’t happen.  Our cynicism takes some of the fun out of the story.  But even then if the snake does bite, we are terribly disappointed if the hero just laughs at the puny venom.  The idea that he can just automatically overcome (make his save) makes for poor storytelling and heroic adventure.  Everything after that point is cheap.  I think of the scene in Ep 1 when the giant fish thing garbs the sub.  QQ never bats an eye.  Another bigger fish kills the first fish and QQ casually comments on it like, “I knew it would happen”.  It was a crushing moment that took the sense of drama away from everything to follow.  Knowing you can easily save is the same.  But that is the exception to the storytelling.  Yes, the hero wins in the end.  But Vader throws Han’s blaster from his hand with casual ease and Han is captured.  Gandalf warns Gimli that he won’t see past the magic of the enemy.  The hero’s run and evade.  They train their Jedi powers, they attack from surprise, they obtain Excalibur to protect them.  Somehow they account for and overcome the terrible power they cannot stare in the eye.When saves come easy it is that cynical side winning.  The drama and tension, and the glory of victory, are lessened.  I agree that the heroes win in the end.  I don’t agree that they ever feel like they can shrug off threats.And lets not even talk about Lovecraft who is also in Appendix N (along with Derleth)Yes, 1E saves got very easy.  I’ll agree that the feel of 1E is valid.  (same for 4E in this specific case).  I completely respect that if you want that play style you have the reasonable expectation that WotC will keep their word and make that available.  I’m not arguing taste.  For myself, I can recall even when I was loving 2E as the only game in town being disappointed that magic was often not scary enough.But to claim that fear of situations which present high probability of death or at least major set-back doesn’t fit in the genre is bizarre.  Situations in which the hero stands in the path of a spell and simply ignores it are rare, and usually very unsatisfactory in those unusual cases of them happening.  The hero still wins in the end.</blockquote>

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