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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6329076" data-attributes="member: 18">You're proving my point, dude.The hero needs help from his allies when he is weak, and young, and so on. By the end, however, he can stand alone (and indeed must).That's closer how it was in BD&D, 1E, and 2E - PCs got better at their saves overall. Everyone was more capable of resisting their opponents at higher levels.In 3.XE, it got weird. PCs got good at resisting some things, but not other stuff, where they actually got effectively worse (and even the good stuff tended to stay more constant than to get ahead of the opposition). That'd 3.XE-specific and peculiar. It's not found in fantasy literature, nor very typical of D&D over the years.4E had another take - you didn't really get better at saves, overall, nor worse - they remained roughly constant when facing real threats. There was a "Hero's Journey" effect, though, in that whilst your numbers didn't get better, you did typically acquire a multitude of ways to survive or resist save-requiring effects. So a higher-level 4E character, like a BD&D, 1E, or 2E character, was typically much better at surviving save-requiring effects than a low-level one.With 5E, we have inexplicably reverted to the 3.XE-specific style which is different all other D&D styles.This is very weird. 5E claims to "unify" D&D. Yet it's going for 3.XE-specific, rather than the D&D norm.The big problem with this debate isn't any nonsense about 1-20 campaigns or whatever, it's that we don't know how hard/easy it will be to acquire proficiency in further saving throws. If all it takes is a single level of a class, or if, say, a Feat grants two proficient saves or something, then this becomes merely a "Feat Tax" issue. Boring, but trivial to fix.It's also possible that non-rare magic items will fix the issue (a multitude of possibilities here), allowing DMs to tailor how much of an issue it is in their campaign.If, on the other hand, there's really nothing that can be done beyond boosting the stats involved with the very few Feats you have, well, then you're going to be seeing anyone with non-proficient WIS and CHA saves standing around quite a lot whenever enemy casters are about, relying entirely on the other PCs to disrupt the Concentration of those casters (which seems kind of perverse).</blockquote>

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