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<blockquote data-quote="Cybit" data-source="post: 6330402" data-attributes="member: 66111">From someone currently engaged in high level shenanigans...1) the Indomitable nerf makes my players a little sad, alas.&nbsp; 2) Magic Items definitely help with some of these issues; but it depends if your DM uses magic items (I imagine at 20th level players should have magic items in most games)3) Casters are going to DESPISE concentration; the save issue you bring up for fighters also smacks many casters in the face; that DC 10 Con save gets annoying the fourth or fifth time you have to make it in a row because of AoE damage, or repeated attacks.&nbsp; 4) Save or Suck spells are surprisingly weaker in play than in theory; that &quot;one save per round&quot; bit is very brutal, very quickly.&nbsp; Dominate Person, for instance, is an 5th level spell that requires the CASTER to use their own actions in order to command their target precisely.&nbsp; Also, should you use it to fight someone, they get a save for each time they take damage.&nbsp; Not each round.&nbsp; Each time.&nbsp; Otto's, for instance, requires the caster be within 30 feet to cast it.&nbsp; Also, heaven help someone play an elf or some other race that gets benefits to charm. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp; So far, we haven't had too many issues at high level play.&nbsp; The rocket tag aspect definitely has diminished.&nbsp; Think we're going up to 18th; so I'll let folks know how it goes as we get higher.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cybit, post: 6330402, member: 66111"] From someone currently engaged in high level shenanigans... 1) the Indomitable nerf makes my players a little sad, alas. 2) Magic Items definitely help with some of these issues; but it depends if your DM uses magic items (I imagine at 20th level players should have magic items in most games) 3) Casters are going to DESPISE concentration; the save issue you bring up for fighters also smacks many casters in the face; that DC 10 Con save gets annoying the fourth or fifth time you have to make it in a row because of AoE damage, or repeated attacks. 4) Save or Suck spells are surprisingly weaker in play than in theory; that "one save per round" bit is very brutal, very quickly. Dominate Person, for instance, is an 5th level spell that requires the CASTER to use their own actions in order to command their target precisely. Also, should you use it to fight someone, they get a save for each time they take damage. Not each round. Each time. Otto's, for instance, requires the caster be within 30 feet to cast it. Also, heaven help someone play an elf or some other race that gets benefits to charm. ;) So far, we haven't had too many issues at high level play. The rocket tag aspect definitely has diminished. Think we're going up to 18th; so I'll let folks know how it goes as we get higher. [/QUOTE]

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