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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6330526" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Yup.  Its the saving throw system generally that I find problematic and Wizards, as you point out, are likely to get the short end of that stick the worst.  It may end up being especially problematic as the game progresses and they have to deal with a potentially large number of direct damage, multi-attacks and collateral damage attacks from AoEs.  The Wizard does indeed need to be a high finesse class and avoid a Concentration check-fest through tactically/strategically sound play, so there is some responsibility on the player there (and the group to protect the Wizard).  However, imagine the scenario where you're GMing an NPC Lich BBEG in a group of 5 + players.  Besides just the aspect of undead mooks/guardians, the lair mechanics better do some heavy-lifting battlefield control there.  If not, any rewarding fights with the classic D&D trope of Liches and megalomaniacal spellcasters may be shut down due to the increasing number of Concentration checks the NPC caster will have to endure in large groups.  I'm not committed to a position at this point, but I'm wary (or at least I would be).The other issue I wonder at is Concentration checks on infantry/front-line PC F/MUs.  They'll have plenty of access to Shield by mid-level, but they certainly won't have it at the frequency offered by Spell Mastery (unless through a feat).  Those sorts of builds have historically relied upon some manner of buffs (such as Haste or Blur) to make up the rate of attack/action economy and survivability loss that they endure due to split-classing.  With the current saving throw system, depending on how saving throw proficiencies work with multi-classing, something like a Dex/Int Elf F/MU may end up being slightly below average, but not horrible, on each of Con (Concentration), Dex, and Wis saves due to MAD and the ST proficiency system.  If they're facing down multiple enemies or a multi-attacker, like a Marilith, they're likely to be paddling upstream pretty severely.  That is, unless they can get access to an extra suite of immediate actions (beyond Shield), that lets them avoid or mitigate them.All speculation at this point though because the implication of Concentration at the highest of levels is still only mostly in the realm of theorycraft.  However,  [MENTION=66111]Cybit[/MENTION] 's post just upthread does incline itself toward what I feel is the intuitive take; that it may lean toward too punitive for NPC spellcasters BBEGs and possibly certain F/MU builds.</blockquote>

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