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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6868279" data-attributes="member: 12731">Now that the game has been out for a while, I'm hoping to learn about your high-level experiences about this, so I'm revisiting the issue. (This was the EN thread google deemed most relevant, so I'm reusing it. It does have over three hundred posts, so please feel free to quote yourself if I'm asking a question you have already answered)Epic threats can easily have effects with save DCs higher than 20. Weak saves stay around ±0.What is the consensus, now (in the year 2016), with practical play experience? Has the game worked for your tier IV characters? Out of the box, that is; without you having to add in house rules?Does the game really ask your level 20 character with a -1 modifier to make a Charisma Save with DC 23, or, say, an Intelligence Save with DC 26. Remember, that was the original concern back when this thread started in 2014.Perhaps your high-level characters get items that simply make you have no -1 saves? Or there are buffs? Perhaps you have found it reasonably possible to use smart play to avoid or at least downplay the abilities of monsters that lead to these monster saves? Or that they are so very rare that you simply suck it up? Or do you truly feel crushed, helpless, its-so-bad-its-not-funny?Have the devs responded on this issue anywhere? Twitter? Convention talks? Are WotC happy with the high level saving throw math?regards,Zapp</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 6868279, member: 12731"] Now that the game has been out for a while, I'm hoping to learn about your high-level experiences about this, so I'm revisiting the issue. (This was the EN thread google deemed most relevant, so I'm reusing it. It does have over three hundred posts, so please feel free to quote yourself if I'm asking a question you have already answered) Epic threats can easily have effects with save DCs higher than 20. Weak saves stay around ±0. What is the consensus, now (in the year 2016), with practical play experience? Has the game worked for your tier IV characters? Out of the box, that is; without you having to add in house rules? Does the game really ask your level 20 character with a -1 modifier to make a Charisma Save with DC 23, or, say, an Intelligence Save with DC 26. Remember, that was the original concern back when this thread started in 2014. Perhaps your high-level characters get items that simply make you have no -1 saves? Or there are buffs? Perhaps you have found it reasonably possible to use smart play to avoid or at least downplay the abilities of monsters that lead to these monster saves? Or that they are so very rare that you simply suck it up? Or do you truly feel crushed, helpless, its-so-bad-its-not-funny? Have the devs responded on this issue anywhere? Twitter? Convention talks? Are WotC happy with the high level saving throw math? regards, Zapp [/QUOTE]

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