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<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6875793" data-attributes="member: 6677017">This seems to be a really good summary of the objection to how saving throws work in 5e. While I don't share the objection, it does make me have to think through why it doesn't bother me, because what you're saying there is the kind of thing I would normally agree with.While I haven't been able to totally figure it out, I think the main reason it doesn't bother me is that almost all characters gain some way of resisting or mitigating the effects of magic through their class advancement, even when it isn't a simple equivalent of more hp (numerical).Without an in-depth analysis...Classes with features that can help with any/all saves:Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, Wizards: Spells (helping directly or indirectly)Fighters: IndomitableMonks: Proficiency in all savesPaladins: Charisma to all savesClasses with one notable weakness (of the big 3 saves):Barbarian: Wisdom. While they aren't proficient in Dex saves, most of those effects target hp, which barbarians have in abundance.Rogues: Constitution. (Slippery Mind takes care of Wisdom)If feats are in play, an individual barbarian or rogue could take Resilient and then they'd be fine, but we can't assume feats when analyzing.That leaves Rangers and Warlocks without any universal class feature that is coming to my mind that is especially helpful in avoiding or mitigating spells that require saves.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 6875793, member: 6677017"] This seems to be a really good summary of the objection to how saving throws work in 5e. While I don't share the objection, it does make me have to think through why it doesn't bother me, because what you're saying there is the kind of thing I would normally agree with. While I haven't been able to totally figure it out, I think the main reason it doesn't bother me is that almost all characters gain some way of resisting or mitigating the effects of magic through their class advancement, even when it isn't a simple equivalent of more hp (numerical). Without an in-depth analysis... [U]Classes with features that can help with any/all saves:[/U] Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, Wizards: Spells (helping directly or indirectly) Fighters: Indomitable Monks: Proficiency in all saves Paladins: Charisma to all saves [U]Classes with one notable weakness (of the big 3 saves):[/U] Barbarian: Wisdom. While they aren't proficient in Dex saves, most of those effects target hp, which barbarians have in abundance. Rogues: Constitution. (Slippery Mind takes care of Wisdom) If feats are in play, an individual barbarian or rogue could take Resilient and then they'd be fine, but we can't assume feats when analyzing. That leaves Rangers and Warlocks without any universal class feature that is coming to my mind that is especially helpful in avoiding or mitigating spells that require saves. [/QUOTE]

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