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Weapon Finesse with longsword?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mike Sullivan" data-source="post: 794722" data-attributes="member: 9824"><p>Average damage with a normal longsword with no damage bonus (including possibility of criticals): 4.95</p><p></p><p>Average damage with a normal rapier with no damage bonus (including possibility of criticals): 4.025</p><p></p><p>Average damage with a normal longsword with a +5 damage bonus (including possibility of criticals): 10.45</p><p></p><p>Average damage with a normal rapier with a +5 damage bonus (including possibility of criticals: 9.775</p><p></p><p>Average damage with a normal longsword with a +10 damage bonus (including possibility of criticals): 15.95</p><p></p><p>Average damage with a normal rapier with a +10 damage bonus (including possibility of criticals): 15.525</p><p></p><p>Average damage with a <em>Keen</em>, improved critical longsword with a +5 damage bonus: 12.35</p><p></p><p>Average damage with a <em>Keen</em>, improved critical rapier with a +5 damage bonus: 12.325</p><p></p><p>Average damage with a <em>Keen</em>, improved critical longsword with a +10 damage bonus: 18.85</p><p></p><p>Average damage with a <em>Keen</em>, improved critical rapier with a +10 damage bonus: <strong>19.575</strong></p><p></p><p><em>BUT</em></p><p></p><p>Average damage with an improved critical longsword with a +12 damage bonus: <strong>19.8</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What's all that come down to? Basically, there's not a whole lot of difference between a longsword and a rapier at reasonable levels -- the longsword is slightly superior. At high damage bonuses, a <em>Keen</em> rapier wielded by someone with Improved Critical will do more damage than a <em>Keen</em> longsword, but if you just take the +2 enhancement that Keen is supposedly worth, on the longsword, you come out miles ahead (especially when you factor in increased chance to hit as well, but even on pure damage). So only after you're already dealing with weapons that are +5 to hit and damage (perhaps due to GMW) do rapiers start to exceed the longsword -- and, of course, then only when the target is susceptible to critical hits, and assuming that your attack bonus is high enough that you don't "waste" any of the rapier's critical range (unlikely with your tertiary attack, by the way).</p><p></p><p>But the difference between 'em is pretty small. Longsword is a better weapon for people below around 15th level, but not an <em>overwhelmingly</em> better weapon.</p><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT: Oh, by the way, I assume you know this and just typoed, but the rapier is 18-20/x2, not 18-20/x3.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mike Sullivan, post: 794722, member: 9824"] Average damage with a normal longsword with no damage bonus (including possibility of criticals): 4.95 Average damage with a normal rapier with no damage bonus (including possibility of criticals): 4.025 Average damage with a normal longsword with a +5 damage bonus (including possibility of criticals): 10.45 Average damage with a normal rapier with a +5 damage bonus (including possibility of criticals: 9.775 Average damage with a normal longsword with a +10 damage bonus (including possibility of criticals): 15.95 Average damage with a normal rapier with a +10 damage bonus (including possibility of criticals): 15.525 Average damage with a [i]Keen[/i], improved critical longsword with a +5 damage bonus: 12.35 Average damage with a [i]Keen[/i], improved critical rapier with a +5 damage bonus: 12.325 Average damage with a [i]Keen[/i], improved critical longsword with a +10 damage bonus: 18.85 Average damage with a [i]Keen[/i], improved critical rapier with a +10 damage bonus: [b]19.575[/b] [i]BUT[/i] Average damage with an improved critical longsword with a +12 damage bonus: [b]19.8[/b] What's all that come down to? Basically, there's not a whole lot of difference between a longsword and a rapier at reasonable levels -- the longsword is slightly superior. At high damage bonuses, a [i]Keen[/i] rapier wielded by someone with Improved Critical will do more damage than a [i]Keen[/i] longsword, but if you just take the +2 enhancement that Keen is supposedly worth, on the longsword, you come out miles ahead (especially when you factor in increased chance to hit as well, but even on pure damage). So only after you're already dealing with weapons that are +5 to hit and damage (perhaps due to GMW) do rapiers start to exceed the longsword -- and, of course, then only when the target is susceptible to critical hits, and assuming that your attack bonus is high enough that you don't "waste" any of the rapier's critical range (unlikely with your tertiary attack, by the way). But the difference between 'em is pretty small. Longsword is a better weapon for people below around 15th level, but not an [i]overwhelmingly[/i] better weapon. EDIT: Oh, by the way, I assume you know this and just typoed, but the rapier is 18-20/x2, not 18-20/x3. [/QUOTE]
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