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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawken" data-source="post: 4949546" data-attributes="member: 23619">Rather than gaining them every 3rd level AND having to spend a feat in the process? Deal! Look, learning these weapons isn't that difficult. Once you get the fundamentals of using a sword, its only a matter of picking up a few techniques to learn short sword rather than long sword or rapier. Once you learn spear, you've got the foundation for long spear and javelin, doesn't take that much more effort. Once you learn long or short bow, picking up the other won't take much more time either. And really, crossbows! Come on! One is heavier and slightly slower to reload, otherwise, point and shoot. Not difficult at all. It seems that you're thinking it should take longer to learn how to use a weapon for some reason. It doesn't and shouldn't. Why should it be hard for a wizard to learn to use a battle axe when he can fly or throw lightning bolts? Yes, fighters can learn the same battle axe, but where the wizard spends more time with books and spells (and thus learning fewer weapons or armor), the fighter is devoted to weapons and armor and thus learns more of them in the same time.Axes are martial weapons, spears are simple. In my suggested system, you can't learn one and get the other--they are in separate groups. If you count line-by-line the number of Simple Weapon entries in the PHB, you get 19. But there are only about 11 different weapons with the rest being slightly different techniques because of slightly heavier or lighter weapons.Learning Unarmed Strike would cover you for Gauntlet and Spiked Gauntlet--the techniques are roughly the same with the Gauntlets allowing for lethal rather than nonlethal damage.Dagger would also cover Punching Dagger. Club would cover Light Mace, Heavy Mace, and Morningstar.You learn Shortspear, and you're pretty much good with Longspear and Javelin.Quarterstaff.Crossbow--you learn this, you learn both light and heavy. Dart. Sling. Ok, so only about 9 different weapons. Learn the fundamentals of one and you've got the foundation for others. If you learn Heavy Crossbow, you've just learned Light Crossbow too--exact same fundamentals of use except that one is lighter and quicker to reload. You don't need extra time to learn the other and this applies to the others.Martial Weapons: There are a total of 35 different entries in the PHB, but when it comes to actual weapons, you've got:Axes: Throwing, Battle, Great.Bows: Long, Short, Composites.Blunt: Light Hammer, Warhammer, Sap, Flail, Heavy Flail, Greatclub.Kukri.Picks: Light, Heavy.Shields: Light, Heavy, Spiked. Spikes: Armor, Shield.Sword: Short, Long, Rapier, Falchion, Greatsword, Scimitar.Polearms: Trident, Glaive, Guisarme, Halberd, Lance, Ranseur, Scythe. Basically, 8 weapon types, with a few variations on each to allow for size. Once you have the fundamentals of using a short sword, its not going to take much more effort to know how to competently use a Rapier.Exactly. Don't confuse proficiency with skill--which is what I think you're doing. Knowing how to use a weapon (as in not being penalized for using it) IS different from using it with a greater degree of skill (that comes from a higher BAB or feats that reflect advanced techniques like Weapon Focus). Everyone learns a weapon the same way. A 3rd level wizard could learn and attack with a Rapier without penalty (+1 BAB), where a rogue who knew how to use the same weapon would be slightly better at it (+2 BAB), and a Ranger would be even better still (+3 BAB), and a Fighter who focuses on that weapon (+4 BAB with Weapon Focus) would be even better still!They all learn the same weapon (by spending a Martial Skill Point) and can do the same things with it (make attacks without penalties), but it is the different time allowed to train with the weapon (BAB progression and bonus feats) that determines how skilled they are. While the underlying premise behind D&D is resource management (whether it be treasure, spells, weapons, skills or feats), proficiency with this weapon or that should, for the most part, be a non-issue by 5th level at the latest. Probably by 3rd, most players are already equipped with the weapons and armor they are going to be using for the rest of that character's life--after that its just getting the enchantments they want on those items.</blockquote>

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