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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawken" data-source="post: 4949617" data-attributes="member: 23619">Just like characters "have to" gain new skills every level, and "have to" gain a feat every 3 levels?If you don't like it every level, then tweak the amounts and make them like feats, they gain a number of points maybe every 2 or 3 levels. Then tweak it. The concept is solid even if the numbers aren't to your liking. Plus, if you look at my previous post, I suggested learning two weapons with each martial skill point, so, after 7 skill points, you've technically learned 14 weapons, but are given the entire group. If you don't like that, then make 8 groups for Simple Weapons, and maybe 10 groups for Martial Weapons. Decide if you want 1 point to cover 1 or 2 weapons. Give proficiency with the entire group for spending 10 points on Simple and 12 points on Martial (1 point for each group in Simple or Martial, plus 2 extra). You're assuming formal weapon training. How about informal training? Maybe the fighter in the group helps teach the cleric how to use a few weapons in the evenings when camping, or between adventures--as an example. There are all kinds of ways characters can pick up learning how to use a weapon without going to Sal's Sword School. There's no such thing as NO weapons training in D&D. If a character didn't train with weapons, their BAB would never increase. You don't need to micromanage every minute or hour of a character's time. BAB advancement assumes training with weapons and if you're not going to fix weapon proficiency based on class, then its perfectly reasonable to allow/assume that their training that improves their BAB incorporates other weapons. My idea for martial skill points only measures how many other weapons and armor that the character trains with per level. As such, you could simply assign the martial skill points at 1st level and anytime after that when the character's BAB increases.Then you should have been more specific. Also, I've covered the resolution to this issue at the beginning of this post.Then make your groups as you see fit. I was just writing that out to give you an idea, not list out hard and fast groups.Nah. That's like sex, you either get it or you don't. There is no try. You either learn a weapon or you don't, there is no try, and BAB is a reflection of how well you have learned to use that weapon. The do as I suggested above and give out the martial skill points whenever BAB increases. This reflects their training and skill improving. That's why its a separate thing. Skill Skills is for languages and other skills, martial skills just measure what they train in when their BAB improves.Then tweak the Simple, Martial, etc. to include the weapons you want. Having 3 weapon groups is MUCH simpler than having 8 or 10 groups based on specific weapons. D&D should not bog down based on exactly which weapons a character is proficient with. It still seems like you're wanting to overly complicate the game--and its just that, a game. The more record keeping you demand of yourself and your players makes it less like a game and more like work.So, a character should just be able to pick up a weapon without training and instinctively know how to use it? That makes even less sense. Throughout a level, a character is considered to be training with his weapons, exercising his body, mind and reflexes. When a character gains a new level, the increase in hit points, BAB and saves is a reflection of the training they've been doing up to that point. Its not like a video game where someone levels up and they spontaneously get tougher, faster, smarter. The level up is just a culmination of the effects of that ongoing training.The 3E system of leveling up about every 13 encounters is fine but its still just an average. Some encounters give more or less XP, some XP awards happen outside encounters. So, leveling up is not encounter dependent unless the DM wants it to be. Leveling up should take only as long as what the DM and players agree upon. If Pathfinder works on a 20 encounter/level system, good for them. That doesn't mean you have to stick with it anymore than you do with the 13 encounter average for RAW D&D. Also, I think you're confusing real time with game time. 6 game sessions (assuming 1/week) is a long time to wait for your character to gain/learn something new. However, the time that passes in those 6 sessions is likely going to be a lot less than 6 weeks. Its perfectly reasonable to learn something new in the downtime between encounters. If you're a fighter and you learn 6 weapons per level, it wouldn't be unreasonable or broken for the DM to let you get 1 of those 6 weapons during downtime between encounters as you are levelling up. In fact that does make sense and you should consider doing that especially if the rate of advancement in your games is particularly slow.</blockquote>

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