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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7367276" data-attributes="member: 6795602">I know what you were debating.&nbsp; The point is that unless you are factoring in nearly all damage features into that kind of analysis your results are going to be a bit shaky.&nbsp; Here's what I know without trying a bunch of fancy calculations.Being able to 1 hit kill enemies is really important if you can do that.&nbsp; Duelist gives you a very good chance of 1 hit killing enemies like goblins and kobolds.&nbsp; Without it you have a fairly low chance of killing a goblin or kobold in a single attack.&nbsp; Early on that makes dueling amazing and much better than +1 ac IMO.&nbsp; Once you are past getting easy 1 hit or 1 turn kills then things get a lot more complicated and it's probably more dependent on your DM's tactics than any other single factor for what is better.&nbsp; If your DM puts a lot of enemy focus on the fighter regardless of fighting style then defensive may be better.&nbsp; In a 4 man party vs 4 enemy party the PC's have a decent chance of taking about 10 attacks in 4 rounds (assuming about 1 enemy dies per round).&nbsp; If all those attacks are directed at the fighter then the extra AC will save him from a hit ever 2 combats.&nbsp; Additionally and more importantly his higher AC than squishy party members will save the party a lot more hits than anything else.However, if the DM spreads the monsters out and doesn't focus the fighter any more than any other player then dueling is probably better as it will probably take you the whole day to save 1 hit and if you kill monsters faster you have a good chance of making up that difference.&nbsp; So basically, how's the DM play it, and what enemies will we be facing the entire campaign (etc), and what classes and abilities are our allies using, because that's the only way we will ever be able to answer the question in full.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7367276, member: 6795602"] I know what you were debating. The point is that unless you are factoring in nearly all damage features into that kind of analysis your results are going to be a bit shaky. Here's what I know without trying a bunch of fancy calculations. Being able to 1 hit kill enemies is really important if you can do that. Duelist gives you a very good chance of 1 hit killing enemies like goblins and kobolds. Without it you have a fairly low chance of killing a goblin or kobold in a single attack. Early on that makes dueling amazing and much better than +1 ac IMO. Once you are past getting easy 1 hit or 1 turn kills then things get a lot more complicated and it's probably more dependent on your DM's tactics than any other single factor for what is better. If your DM puts a lot of enemy focus on the fighter regardless of fighting style then defensive may be better. In a 4 man party vs 4 enemy party the PC's have a decent chance of taking about 10 attacks in 4 rounds (assuming about 1 enemy dies per round). If all those attacks are directed at the fighter then the extra AC will save him from a hit ever 2 combats. Additionally and more importantly his higher AC than squishy party members will save the party a lot more hits than anything else. However, if the DM spreads the monsters out and doesn't focus the fighter any more than any other player then dueling is probably better as it will probably take you the whole day to save 1 hit and if you kill monsters faster you have a good chance of making up that difference. So basically, how's the DM play it, and what enemies will we be facing the entire campaign (etc), and what classes and abilities are our allies using, because that's the only way we will ever be able to answer the question in full. [/QUOTE]

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