Weapons on Sticks

[Pickles JG]

It's almost 2 weeks late but here are my statistics for that sadly overlooked but really very important aspect of any proper Roleplaying Game, Polearms.



Name
KeywordsPropertiesClassDamageProfFouchardPolearmLight BladeReach 2Military1d82Military ForkPolearmSpearReach 2High CritMilitary2d42GlaivePolearmHeavy Blade Reach 2Military2d42GuisarmePolearmHeavy Blade Reach 2High CritMilitary1d82Lucerne HammerPolearmHammer SpearReach 2Brutal 1Military1d82Pole Axe (Formerly Halberd)PolearmAxe Reach 2Military1d102PartisanPolearmAxe SpearReach 2Brutal 1Military1d82Bohemian EarspoonPolearmPick SpearReach 2High CritMilitary1d82PikePolearmSpearReach 3Military1d82RanseurPolearmHeavy Blade Spear Reach 2Military1d82SpearPolearmSpear Reach 2Military1d102Bec De CorbinPolearmHammerReach 2Brutal 2Superior1d102Bill GuisarmePolearmAxe Pick SpearReach 2High Crit, Brutal 1Superior1d82Fouchard ForkPolearmLight Blade Reach 2Superior1d83Glaive GuisarmePolearmHeavy Blade Reach 2Brutal 1Superior2d42Guisarme VoulgePolearmAxe Heavy BladeReach 2Superior2d43HalberdPolearmAxe SpearReach 2Superior1d122GreatspearPolearmSpear Reach 2Superior1d103SpetumPolearmSpearReach 2High CritSuperior1d102VoulgePolearmAxe Heavy BladeReach 2Brutal 1Superior1d102

Now we can do some real roleplaying (well we could if we could read it)

 

[Alex319]

To make tables you can use the "code" tag to format it in a monospaced font like so:

Column A   Column B   Column C

1          2          3
4          5          6
7          8          9
10         11         12

 

[Nytmare]

[B]Name               Keywords                     Properties                   Class      Damage  Prof[/B]
Fouchard           Polearm, Light Blade         Reach 2                       Military   1d8     2
Military Fork      Polearm, Spear               Reach 2, High Crit            Military   2d4     2
Glaive             Polearm, Heavy Blade         Reach 2                       Military   2d4     2
Guisarme           Polearm, Heavy Blade         Reach 2, High Crit            Military   1d8     2
Lucerne Hammer     Polearm, Hammer, Spear       Reach 2, Brutal 1             Military   1d8     2
Pole Axe           Polearm, Axe                 Reach 2                       Military   1d10    2
Partisan           Polearm, Axe, Spear          Reach 2, Brutal 1             Military   1d8     2
Bohemian Earspoon  Polearm, Pick, Spear         Reach 2, High Crit            Military   1d8     2
Pike               Polearm, Spear               Reach 3                       Military   1d8     2
Ranseur            Polearm, Heavy Blade, Spear  Reach 2                       Military   1d8     2
Spear              Polearm, Spear               Reach 2                       Military   1d10    2
Bec De Corbin      Polearm, Hammer              Reach 2, Brutal 2             Superior   1d10    2
Bill Guisarme      Polearm, Axe, Pick, Spear    Reach 2, High Crit, Brutal 1  Superior   1d8     2
Fouchard Fork      Polearm, Light Blade         Reach 2                       Superior   1d8     3
Glaive Guisarme    Polearm, Heavy Blade         Reach 2, Brutal 1             Superior   2d4     2
Guisarme Voulge    Polearm, Axe, Heavy Blade    Reach 2                       Superior   2d4     3
Halberd            Polearm, Axe, Spear          Reach 2                       Superior   1d12    2
Greatspear         Polearm, Spear               Reach 2                       Superior   1d10    3
Spetum             Polearm, Spear               Reach 2,High Crit             Superior   1d10    2
Voulge             Polearm, Axe, Heavy Blade    Reach 2, Brutal 1             Superior   1d10    2

I don't know some of these seem a little wonky.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The problem is that your realism is almost certainly no more realistic than the simplification used by 4e. It is true that there were a plethora of different names given to a whole range of minor variations of head shapes, but they were all either basically an axe with a spike on top or fundamentally a spear. Even the inclusion of glaive as a separate weapon distinct from either spear or halberd is somewhat debatable. You can't even find 3 experts who will agree on what any of these various weapons should be called. Functionally they are a halberd, a glaive, or a great spear.

 

[Pickles JG]

The problem is that your realism is almost certainly no more realistic than the simplification used by 4e. It is true that there were a plethora of different names given to a whole range of minor variations of head shapes, but they were all either basically an axe with a spike on top or fundamentally a spear. Even the inclusion of glaive as a separate weapon distinct from either spear or halberd is somewhat debatable. You can't even find 3 experts who will agree on what any of these various weapons should be called. Functionally they are a halberd, a glaive, or a great spear.

Realism in MY D&D! How dare you!

This is sort of a joke - my source was the 1 ed PHB & Unearthed Arcana.

There is of course absolutely no need for this but the systems of 4e do support them just fine & they are less busted than double weapons.

A lot of these weapons feature "hooks" which are not keyworded in 4e. If I really thought that detail = realism & realism = a good thing, then I would try to figure out what hooks do - but that means messing with either feats or powers. The hooked weapons above are mostly superior versions of the unhooked ones. (X-guisarme is a key for added hooks)

& Many thanks Nytmare

 

[Nytmare]

If I really thought that detail = realism & realism = a good thing, then I would try to figure out what hooks do

(they were used to do things like pull people off of horseback or pull shields down)

 

[the Jester]

Most pole arms were, at least initially, peasants mounting tools on the end of long sticks.

Thus, I doubt whether they warrant the "superior" tag. You might want to re-evaluate some of the stats based on that.

 

[Nytmare]

Most pole arms were, at least initially, peasants mounting tools on the end of long sticks.

"Superior" is an indication of the training needed to use the weapon skillfully though, not a measure of quality when you're talking about the weapon's origins.

I don't know how they fit in balance wise, but the break he has between martial and superior weapons makes sense at least definition wise. If you smack, hack, or poke someone with it: martial. If you need to make a choice between smacking, hacking, or poking someone with it: superior.

 

[Garthanos]

I am quite sure this is a terrible response but its my gut talking and
I might be a bit overly grumbly today.

If there were heros of myth and legend that ... made the things cool ... I would worry about it .. otherwise I think they belong on minions like the witches guards of the Wizard of Oz and can do whatever damage you need them to even a bald faced 5 pts like any monster. If I wanted to do something interesting on field soldiers to challenge mounted pcs I would have the npc do a sort of grab using the hook to unmount them. Elaborate stats differentiating the things... didnt even make sense to me in earlier versions of the game,

sigh.... yeah obvious something of this seems to float somebodies boat ;-)
I cant say I begin to understand the desire.

 

[Nytmare]

I might be a bit overly grumbly today.

I'll tread lightly.

If there were heros of myth and legend that ... made the things cool ... I would worry about it .. otherwise I think they belong on minions like the witches guards of the Wizard of Oz and can do whatever damage you need them to even a bald faced 5 pts like any monster.

That's the crux of it though. For people like Pickle, the cool factor (TM) has already been reached and he's looking for the translation. Beyond the people who hang on the historical aspects, you can see pole arms in action in tons of martial arts flicks; and granted, there are tons of people who have probably never seen them, but if you have the knowledge base that makes you notice that there are all those different variations, you look to carry those variations over.

If you take your average 11 year old girl whose knowledge base doesn't extend past Hannah Montana and Barbie dolls, a sword is a sword. Your average gamer, however, would balk at a game that didn't differentiate between slashing and poking swords, or how many edges were sharp, or swords where how many hands you could use didn't mean something important. Likewise, I'm sure there are people who are WAY more into swords who freak out over how simplified the 8 flavors of D&D swords are. Where is the jager? The gladius? The takouba?

I'm not saying that every weapon that ever existed should be written up and forced down the community's throat, but I'm willing to help someone else prop up their suspension of disbelief.

That being said, I think that most of the realistic differences between the various types of polearms don't translate well into 4th Ed, and that Pickle only needs to capture a couple of key points to carry that flavor over. In general, polearms are different because of the tool(s) that get stuck on the end of them and in 4th Ed terms that means that each polearm would define a different weapon group (or groups) and possibly a property or two.

So filtering through the groups and my, albiet flakey, knowledge of history, I end up with the following possible polearm definitions:

axe 1d10
hammer 1d0
heavy blade 2d4
light blade 1d6
pick 1d8
spear 1d8
high crit
​

I'd say that any one of those weapon groups, all by itself, can be a +2 prof, martial, reach weapon.

Any two groups, barring the light blade, can be a +3 prof, superior weapon that takes the lower damage die of the two weapon groups.

Any one group and high crit can be a +3 prof, superior weapon.

(Any superior polearm that wants to have that little pokey bit on the end can have it, but it's not going to count as a light blade cause of all the other non-light-blade bits hanging off the end.)

Doing something like this leaves it relatively simple, offers a concrete difference somewhat related to reality, and you don't need to have a chart and a half of every possible configuration.

As a side note, how many heroes of Myth and Legend can you name who made the katar or the spiked chain famous?