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<blockquote data-quote="Not a Decepticon" data-source="post: 9772086" data-attributes="member: 7020527"><p>This is inherently impossible.</p><p></p><p>Your foundation decides what the game is about and who is it for. There is only as far as you can homebrew to modify the foundation before you would be better off picking another game altogether. And, quite frankly, the foundation you and Micah describe is such blatantly aimed for one specific niche, that in itself weirdly blends two styles that do not mesh well to begin with, that you are effectively telling everyone else to ef off. A game as blatantly good only at dungeoncrawling, that challenges players while treating characters as disposable, and has bunch of weird, annoying mechanics attached for sake of simulationism...to turn such game into a collaborative storytelling one is so much work it is a time better spent learning other systems. Your dream is a pipe one and will isntead jsut lead to gatekeeping.</p><p></p><p>So once I run out of spells it means I lost the game, should get off the table, pack and leave, yes?</p><p></p><p>Also, even if we take this ridiculous assumption D&D is a game, it is NOT Risk or Chess or Poker or Talisman. Those are <strong>competetive</strong> games with winners and losers, while D&D would qualify as <strong>collaborative</strong> game, where entire group works together for one goal. See games like Mansions of Madness, Arkham Horror, or Battlestar Galactica/Unfanthomable.</p><p></p><p>Except I am also incentivised to play sub-optimal at ALL TIMEs in order to avoid being empty tank to begin with. Playing wizard with your stipulations amounts to...not playing wizard.</p><p></p><p>I don't know if the mocking and dismissive way with which this paragraph came off was your intention, but I do nto care much for tinily-veiled insults to other games like this.</p><p></p><p>Not really. it may have grew from a wargame but, let's be honest, it is a BAD wargame, just as it is a BAD dungeon crawler, people only stick to claiming the game does these things good out of pre-perceived image. But these are argurably the worst parts of the game, regardless of edition.</p><p></p><p>Again, if I take big chunk of my limited leisure time, likely after hard workday, to go and play my character, I am expecting to be able to play my character. I can accept if my own decisions or the dice get in the way of telling the story I want to tell, but if the game puts arbitrary restrictions on my ability to play character I want to play, then I am better off finding another game because this one should never offer an option to play this type of character to begin with. if your ideal way of playing the wizard incentivises player to NOT play the wizard, maybe wizard shouldn't be playable to begin with?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Not a Decepticon, post: 9772086, member: 7020527"] This is inherently impossible. Your foundation decides what the game is about and who is it for. There is only as far as you can homebrew to modify the foundation before you would be better off picking another game altogether. And, quite frankly, the foundation you and Micah describe is such blatantly aimed for one specific niche, that in itself weirdly blends two styles that do not mesh well to begin with, that you are effectively telling everyone else to ef off. A game as blatantly good only at dungeoncrawling, that challenges players while treating characters as disposable, and has bunch of weird, annoying mechanics attached for sake of simulationism...to turn such game into a collaborative storytelling one is so much work it is a time better spent learning other systems. Your dream is a pipe one and will isntead jsut lead to gatekeeping. So once I run out of spells it means I lost the game, should get off the table, pack and leave, yes? Also, even if we take this ridiculous assumption D&D is a game, it is NOT Risk or Chess or Poker or Talisman. Those are [B]competetive[/B] games with winners and losers, while D&D would qualify as [B]collaborative[/B] game, where entire group works together for one goal. See games like Mansions of Madness, Arkham Horror, or Battlestar Galactica/Unfanthomable. Except I am also incentivised to play sub-optimal at ALL TIMEs in order to avoid being empty tank to begin with. Playing wizard with your stipulations amounts to...not playing wizard. I don't know if the mocking and dismissive way with which this paragraph came off was your intention, but I do nto care much for tinily-veiled insults to other games like this. Not really. it may have grew from a wargame but, let's be honest, it is a BAD wargame, just as it is a BAD dungeon crawler, people only stick to claiming the game does these things good out of pre-perceived image. But these are argurably the worst parts of the game, regardless of edition. Again, if I take big chunk of my limited leisure time, likely after hard workday, to go and play my character, I am expecting to be able to play my character. I can accept if my own decisions or the dice get in the way of telling the story I want to tell, but if the game puts arbitrary restrictions on my ability to play character I want to play, then I am better off finding another game because this one should never offer an option to play this type of character to begin with. if your ideal way of playing the wizard incentivises player to NOT play the wizard, maybe wizard shouldn't be playable to begin with? [/QUOTE]
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