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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 191585" data-attributes="member: 151">My two cents:  Azlan, I think you may have meant well, and I certainly agree that some items are the kind the players will always seek out.  However, the tone of your posts has been somewhat condescending, and when you being denigrating the system as 'weenie' and then illustrate your points with incorrect rules examples, people are going to bristle.  Especially when said topics have been discussed ad nauseum.  People don't enjoy being lectured, moreso when they detect a major flaw in one of your examples, because it leads to the belief that the rest of your argument is not fully thought out.From my reading so far, it seems as if the whole cost issue is irrelevant to you.  The concept that you seem to think that the game stops being worth playing at 10th level or thereabouts further undercuts your position.  Characters at higher levels carry a small country's GNP in magic items and equipment.  D&D has always been this way, and 3E expects it (is, in fact, designed with this in mind).  If you haven't run a game with high-level characters, then you can't appreciate that.  You admittedly point out that you've been playing for a year...that's good.  But understand that many of us had already been playing for a year before you started, and were arguing over these self-same topics THEN.A +40 on jump checks is all well and good...but the warrior with the +2 flaming greatsword will think his money much better spent.  If you really are running low level games, one tends to wonder where they're getting all the money for these items.  Cost is supposed to be a limiting factor for your players, and if they're all walking around with this laundry list of equipment, soemthing sounds off.Many of these items aren't terribly impressive, especially as the spellcasters come into their own.  When the mage can cast fly or polymorph self that lasts for 8+ hours...it's functionally on all the time, game-wise.  Greater Magic Weapon slows the need for magic weapons, as do many other enchantments.  A +1 to resistance isn't that big of a deal, especially as the characters start encountering DCs in the high 20s and 30s.  Many of these items are just considered standard adventurer equipment, in the same way as one might purchase a horse, a torch or a healing potion.  The system expects it, and it was designed with it in mind.  Add a few house rules, or give the characters too much loot, and the system can start to break down.  Are there min/max combos available?  Of course there are.  But in a game this complex, there will be.  They cannot be eliminated, short of DM dilligence.  If, however, your problem is that you don't like the commonality of said items....that's fine.  Just understand that you need to run a low-magic, non-standard D&D game and go to it.  But also understand that not everyone wants that.BTW, if you think you need thick skin here, you really need to avoid some other messageboards one might name, where they'd skin you alive.  Eric's grandmother makes sure that we behave here.  She's a nice old lady.  She bakes pies. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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