Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Weighing in on 5e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5702633" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Yeah, but Mike and Monte didn't suggest +20 for training. keterys did (tongue in cheek of course).</p><p></p><p>I don't think that Mike and Monte decided that this system is the cat's thingy.</p><p></p><p>I think Monte doesn't play 4E, is stuck in 3.5, and was talking out of his butt.</p><p></p><p></p><p>"That's the straightforward, active perception issue, but what about what I like to call <strong>"passive perception?"</strong> You know: when the PCs aren't actually looking for something, but it stands to reason that some one or more of them might just have a chance of noticing the hidden thing. Remember, for example, how in first 1st edition elves had a chance to notice secret doors just by walking by them? Or what about the rogue who always has a wary eye out for traps? You don't want these guys constantly making die rolls every 5 feet. The game will bog down quickly."</p><p></p><p></p><p>Monte is a fairly smart guy. You can tell so by his writing. But, it's pretty obvious to even a noob player that 4E already has a solution for this for two skills and it just happens to be called Passive Perception and Passive Insight.</p><p></p><p>When Monte has to explain this to 4E players who already know it and he uses the same terminology, but prefaces it with "what I like to call", it means that he's smart, but lacking in knowledge. He just didn't know that 4E already has that.</p><p></p><p>I suspect that this whole rank thing will be forgotten or only slightly added to the game system in 5E (and of course, keterys' game mechanics parody is just plain silly). At best, they'll add the equivalent of passive xxx to a few other skills like a passive climb for athletics (maybe), the 5E equivalent of take 10, but maybe expanded a bit (for example, a take 10 climb where the DM doesn't think that the climb is especially dangerous). 5E might just formalized this a bit more (hopefully, I hope they don't go all rank thingy in 5E).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Opps. Ignore this. I had only read Monte's perception article, not Mike's class warfare. Mike is actually thinking of this. Good thing he got negative feedback from some of the other designers. I still think that passive xxx works just as good without adding yet another layer and I see some other issues with the Journeyman approach. The game can work with the DM deciding "auto-work" or "auto-fail" without having a bunch of extra skill rules on it. It is a bit annoying to see game elements from other games creeping into D&D in the almighty attempt to simplify. If they want to simplify something, they should tackle the plethora of short term conditions that are constantly being added and subtracted during combat. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5702633, member: 2011"] Yeah, but Mike and Monte didn't suggest +20 for training. keterys did (tongue in cheek of course). I don't think that Mike and Monte decided that this system is the cat's thingy. I think Monte doesn't play 4E, is stuck in 3.5, and was talking out of his butt. "That's the straightforward, active perception issue, but what about what I like to call [b]"passive perception?"[/b] You know: when the PCs aren't actually looking for something, but it stands to reason that some one or more of them might just have a chance of noticing the hidden thing. Remember, for example, how in first 1st edition elves had a chance to notice secret doors just by walking by them? Or what about the rogue who always has a wary eye out for traps? You don't want these guys constantly making die rolls every 5 feet. The game will bog down quickly." Monte is a fairly smart guy. You can tell so by his writing. But, it's pretty obvious to even a noob player that 4E already has a solution for this for two skills and it just happens to be called Passive Perception and Passive Insight. When Monte has to explain this to 4E players who already know it and he uses the same terminology, but prefaces it with "what I like to call", it means that he's smart, but lacking in knowledge. He just didn't know that 4E already has that. I suspect that this whole rank thing will be forgotten or only slightly added to the game system in 5E (and of course, keterys' game mechanics parody is just plain silly). At best, they'll add the equivalent of passive xxx to a few other skills like a passive climb for athletics (maybe), the 5E equivalent of take 10, but maybe expanded a bit (for example, a take 10 climb where the DM doesn't think that the climb is especially dangerous). 5E might just formalized this a bit more (hopefully, I hope they don't go all rank thingy in 5E). Opps. Ignore this. I had only read Monte's perception article, not Mike's class warfare. Mike is actually thinking of this. Good thing he got negative feedback from some of the other designers. I still think that passive xxx works just as good without adding yet another layer and I see some other issues with the Journeyman approach. The game can work with the DM deciding "auto-work" or "auto-fail" without having a bunch of extra skill rules on it. It is a bit annoying to see game elements from other games creeping into D&D in the almighty attempt to simplify. If they want to simplify something, they should tackle the plethora of short term conditions that are constantly being added and subtracted during combat. ;) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Weighing in on 5e
Top