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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8088981" data-attributes="member: 18">I'm pretty sure the people being jerks here don't think there are, though, and further, this particular problem only manifests when people decide stats don't mean anything (or actively don't exist).I've played TTRPGs since 1988, and the idea that there's a clear line between &quot;jerks&quot; and everyone else is not one I can support, on that basis. There are some players who are always jerks, and yes, it's easy to get rid of them. But there are also rules-approaches and rules-systems and so on which can temporarily turn otherwise-nice players into jerks. It's even happened to me, and as annoying as I may be here, I'm usually pretty good player I think! (Castle Falkenstein was what temporarily made me a jerk, largely because I hated the setting's assumptions so much - at 42 I would have just said &quot;I'm not playing that&quot;, but I wasn't 42).RAW they are pretty much treated as binary success/fail, but even if you don't, you have to make up house rules to do so (failing forward has nothing to do with success/fail binaries, and you see it in games where that isn't the case, it just has to do with planning for the consequences of failed rolls), and the extreme variance of the d20 mechanic remains a problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8088981, member: 18"] I'm pretty sure the people being jerks here don't think there are, though, and further, this particular problem only manifests when people decide stats don't mean anything (or actively don't exist). I've played TTRPGs since 1988, and the idea that there's a clear line between "jerks" and everyone else is not one I can support, on that basis. There are some players who are always jerks, and yes, it's easy to get rid of them. But there are also rules-approaches and rules-systems and so on which can temporarily turn otherwise-nice players into jerks. It's even happened to me, and as annoying as I may be here, I'm usually pretty good player I think! (Castle Falkenstein was what temporarily made me a jerk, largely because I hated the setting's assumptions so much - at 42 I would have just said "I'm not playing that", but I wasn't 42). RAW they are pretty much treated as binary success/fail, but even if you don't, you have to make up house rules to do so (failing forward has nothing to do with success/fail binaries, and you see it in games where that isn't the case, it just has to do with planning for the consequences of failed rolls), and the extreme variance of the d20 mechanic remains a problem. [/QUOTE]

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