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Message: <blockquote data-quote="M_Natas" data-source="post: 9448154" data-attributes="member: 7025918">The difference are actually the end conditions. Hiding grants the invisible condition and add its own end conditions while the spell invisibility grants you the invisible condition with a different set of end conditions.The conditions to end invisibility are different and separate from the invisibility condition itself.In game logic we have:Hiding: [Invisibilty] [Ending conditions from hiding]Invisibility spell: [Invisibility] [ending conditions from spell]If you would code that as a computer game that would totally make sense to save a little bit of space.In a D&D rulebook it is ... backwards.They separated the benefits, which were identical in the playtest (hidden condition and invisible condition)  from how to end the condition.Then they decided to do the stupid thing and named the condition invisibility.So, simple fix:The condition needs firstly to be renamed in something neutral. Unseen or Unnoticed.Now hiding grants the beneficial condition of being unseen and the invisibility spell grants the same condition but both have different ways in ending it.The discussion wouldn't have started.But now the second problem is:Some things still don't make sense. The surprise part of the condition is not really working, unless you say "if one NPC sees you, the condition is broken and you don't have it in relation to all others anymore ...".But the biggest problem is, that the 2014 difference between being hidden and being invisible is gone.In 2014 being invisible meant, that people still knew in general where you were. They still could attack the 5foot grid area were  you are, they just have disadvantage.The hidden condition meant, that People didn't know, where you are. They were not able to attack reliable a 5 foot area and hit you, because you could be standing or sitting somewhere else.But in 2024, people still can reliable attack you after hiding, they just have disadvantage?</blockquote>

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