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<blockquote data-quote="SuperGnome" data-source="post: 4250803" data-attributes="member: 17297"><p>Let's see if this helps Joe, but it probably won't.</p><p></p><p>I keep trying to tackle a similar issue, and it gets pulled into the roll vs roleplaying bit. What I can't stand is that everything we've seen (and continues to be shown true by folks who've seen the books) is 4e is pretty much all about combat. Case in point is the Rogue.</p><p></p><p>4e says the Rogue is a striker. Why are they defined by their combat role? Why don't they describe a rogue in an archetypal fashion, about the stealth, cunning, traps, locks, backstab kind of way? Why not set the scene instead of boiling the class down to a combat role? Yes, they still do the theivery skill stuff, but why is the language so combat oriented?</p><p></p><p>I agree that everyone should have a place in combat, but the color/flavor is just not there. I don't care how many arguments are made that the core rulebooks are for crunch, I disagree that's their exclusive purpose. I think inspiring players to play the game is as important as the cruncy rules (not page for page, but in general). Every ability/power I recall (save rituals) is for combat. Look at the example Rogue for KotS and check his abilities. None of them enhace any thiefly ability (locks, pick pockets(slight of hand), stealth). </p><p></p><p>This is one example, but it's repeated over and over. I don't see any examples to put my mind at ease, where some non-combat ability shows up in the at will\encounter\daily list for those guys. I can't imagine they're hiding that part of the game until the full core is released. I don't think it's in there.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SuperGnome, post: 4250803, member: 17297"] Let's see if this helps Joe, but it probably won't. I keep trying to tackle a similar issue, and it gets pulled into the roll vs roleplaying bit. What I can't stand is that everything we've seen (and continues to be shown true by folks who've seen the books) is 4e is pretty much all about combat. Case in point is the Rogue. 4e says the Rogue is a striker. Why are they defined by their combat role? Why don't they describe a rogue in an archetypal fashion, about the stealth, cunning, traps, locks, backstab kind of way? Why not set the scene instead of boiling the class down to a combat role? Yes, they still do the theivery skill stuff, but why is the language so combat oriented? I agree that everyone should have a place in combat, but the color/flavor is just not there. I don't care how many arguments are made that the core rulebooks are for crunch, I disagree that's their exclusive purpose. I think inspiring players to play the game is as important as the cruncy rules (not page for page, but in general). Every ability/power I recall (save rituals) is for combat. Look at the example Rogue for KotS and check his abilities. None of them enhace any thiefly ability (locks, pick pockets(slight of hand), stealth). This is one example, but it's repeated over and over. I don't see any examples to put my mind at ease, where some non-combat ability shows up in the at will\encounter\daily list for those guys. I can't imagine they're hiding that part of the game until the full core is released. I don't think it's in there. [/QUOTE]
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