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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 7713584" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>Both points of view are equally detrimental. I certainly don't want to be associated with those who claim Fatal is the ultimate RPG, and yet, there is the issue of needing to have a orking defintiion of the hobby that doesn't preclude newcomers.</p><p></p><p>The former view is problematic mostly in that it often is used to create us-vs-them dichotomies.</p><p></p><p>The latter denies that a group hobby is defined by its membership - which is the most important part. It also denies the fact that outsiders group us into clades by common association.- and if we don't visibly exclude certain more toxic segments publicly, we WILL be included with them, and blamed for their misbehaviors.</p><p></p><p>Our public definitions by inclusion and exclusion are, sociologically, important; if we publicly exclude the more toxic segments, then the general public is likely to accept and adopt that.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and the batman fan comparison? not a good one. It encompases several discrete, separate hobbies: comic collectors, toy collectors, RPGers, cosplayers, fanfic authors. Casual watchers aren't in a hobby - they may be fans, but fandom is not itself a hobby. Hardcore fans are absent </p><p></p><p>RPGs are a couple of separate hobbies - those who play, those who collect, those paint minis... and dozens upon dozens of separate fandoms.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 7713584, member: 6779310"] Both points of view are equally detrimental. I certainly don't want to be associated with those who claim Fatal is the ultimate RPG, and yet, there is the issue of needing to have a orking defintiion of the hobby that doesn't preclude newcomers. The former view is problematic mostly in that it often is used to create us-vs-them dichotomies. The latter denies that a group hobby is defined by its membership - which is the most important part. It also denies the fact that outsiders group us into clades by common association.- and if we don't visibly exclude certain more toxic segments publicly, we WILL be included with them, and blamed for their misbehaviors. Our public definitions by inclusion and exclusion are, sociologically, important; if we publicly exclude the more toxic segments, then the general public is likely to accept and adopt that. Oh, and the batman fan comparison? not a good one. It encompases several discrete, separate hobbies: comic collectors, toy collectors, RPGers, cosplayers, fanfic authors. Casual watchers aren't in a hobby - they may be fans, but fandom is not itself a hobby. Hardcore fans are absent RPGs are a couple of separate hobbies - those who play, those who collect, those paint minis... and dozens upon dozens of separate fandoms. [/QUOTE]
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