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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6309329" data-attributes="member: 18">Our group's Fighter would throw himself off the airship if he only hit for 1d8+7 damage with a 50% chance to hit an even-level enemy. That's dire. Good grief. If you have AC32 (so, early teens levels) and you're hitting that light and that unreliably, as a Fighter, something is very seriously wrong.But your whole argument is predicated on a abjectly false assumption, not just odd numbers - that being that you can choose whether you "let the Rogue live". You can't. You do not hit hard enough to one-shot him, or even one-round him, and there is a good chance your attacks on him will miss.What your REAL choice is "Do I TRY to HURT the Rogue in the HOPE that he will be incapacitated before he gets to hit me again, but likely incur EXTRA damage right now or do I hit the Fighter and hope that piling on him will get him down, leaving my side free to rampage?".Neither is a good choice - but that's the point - the Fighter makes sure you only have crap choices. As someone who has DM'd this party for a long time, and is tactically adept if I do say so myself (I'm very good at strategy games, chess, etc. - never played Go, admittedly), I can tell you that the real, in-game situation is very often that it is better to pound on the Fighter and try and take him out of the action (which can be done), than try to hammer the Rogue if he is around (and if he is around, the Leader will be not too far off either).The time you wallop the Rogue is when he idiotically overextends trying to get a flashy kill. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />As for your comments on Controller, I will say this - Controllers played by people who don't understand how to cooperate, and who don't understand tactics are a menace to their own side (in any RPG) - however, those people almost never, in my experience, choose to play Controllers. Of the Controllers I've seen in 4E, all of them were played by very adept team-player tacticians, and they absolutely DESTROYED my ability to achieve anything in the encounter as a DM, without preventing the other PCs from smacking the enemies silly, because they knew when and when not to use their powers (and one of them was certainly willing to cause other PCs to take a bit of damage if, in the grand scheme of things, that worked out - which is fine, I think). But yes, knowing when NOT to cast certain spells is important to Controlling. All of the roles in 4E (and indeed most roles in most things) require a bit of skill to handle really well.Furthermore, with Controllers, unless the player in question is fundamentally, hopelessly beyond all help, they will learn from mistakes.Thus if they put a wall down and screw up the party more than the enemy, that will be the last time they screw up like that. If they keep making the same mistakes, frankly, no game is going to be able to help them.</blockquote>

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