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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sigurd" data-source="post: 2193543" data-attributes="member: 19412">Creation MagicI think its interesting that you can make an arguement that the whole of middle earth was either devine or arcane magic or a more complicated mixture of the two.More importantly however I think there is a good point that Tolkien was uncomfortable with non christian dieties and his story is far more about the very real power of man (humanoids) long after the high magic of his world creation. This is very analagous to our religeos world view today.I think the proper type of magic for Tolkien is actually creation magic. Everything has special features according to its creation. The role given to it by a single creator of light. Aragorn gets his power from his lineage. Gandalf was created with certain powers -- when he says he 'once knew the spells of all peoples in every language' I understand that to be as he was created. His rebirth as Gandalf the White is necessary because he must be remade to gain power again.Elves heal and are minor demi-gods - the first children. They do not teach their magic to non elves and barely seem to teach it to their own people. Those created with greatness aquire it. I think it is for this reason that they are dying out - they do not need to teach magic because they are magic.Dwarves are too much of the earth over all -- also jives with their creation. They turn their focus from the upper world and concentrate on the lower one. Dwarves are a lot like the norse tales where they are present when convenient. Tolkien clearly was more fascinated by the elves (he says that in one of his letters).The instance of Sorcery with the witch king of angmar is more properly a sign of the corruption of creation magic. This corruption is very similar to the adam and eve story - cursing those of the creators garden who chose to create in thier own name. Sauron & the Nazgul corrupt by seeking temporal power in middle earth - I think thats the lesson of the one ring as well. Tolkien wrote from a very Old English\Norse perspective where the greatest accomplishment you can achieve is living up to the promise of your ancestors. The pagan Norse claim descent from an age of heroes and the gods. Thats why Isuldur's fall is so powerful and why Aragorn's ascent redeems human kind.Its why the elves surrender middle earth when their time has come. To be a proper part of the great story is the highest good.I think creation magic is a sort of individual growth to truly fulfil what you were meant to be - like the norse pagan hero, like the struggle of frodo the ring bearer. Creation magic is neither devine or arcane (by D&D standards) it is far closer to lineage and etymology. Shelob was created to be poisonous that's why she is. The deal with the magic rings was too good to be true and whoever took the most advantage over it suffered the most.I find it really frustrating that Gandalf cant whip up a globe of invulnerability, or teleport but I think the genesis of those kinds of spells happenned when a wizard said "It would be great if I could just......". There is less egocentricism in Tolkien's magic. You might make the magic help or hinder you under certain circumstances but it wasn't designed with _you_ in mind. The great plan is the expression of God - you approach great power when you get back to his\her creation or plan.Sigurdbtw.G. Gygax - I've really appreciated the child of your work. Thank You.</blockquote>

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