Weretigers and Half Celestrials Oh MY!

[Nightstorm]

Ok I will not go into detail here on why, just that someone in my game is making either a half Celestrial or a weretiger for a character. The Party is 18th ish level.
Now, in the DMG, the ECL for a werebear is +4, now since a werebear can knock a weretiger out of the water, we should assume thats a higher ECL than a weretiger. But for arguments sake lets say a weretiger is +4 also.
NOW look at the weretiger templet in MM and you will see that a weretiger gets:
+12 strength!
+4 Dex
+6 con
AND three feats (blind-fight,Mulit attack, and POwer attack)
Well sign men up! All that and youre only ECL of +4??
Look at the Half Celestrial and it only gets worst!
+4 strength, +2 Dex,+4 con, +2 Intel, +4 Wis, +4 char
and a whole lot of other stuff that I will not go into. Now a half celestrial is listed in the DMG as +3!!!!
Look at the table and it only gets worst.
A Minotaur, which besides high strength, is +8. I think I'll go with the half celestrial ah screw the half celestiral I'll go with the weretiger. Meow!

 

[AGGEMAM]

ECL rating in the DMG should not be taken at face value, since they have not been playtested at all.

In Dragon magazine a more but not totally correct ECL listing is given. I presume that with SSp book there will be a full and correct list, until that gets errated off course.

 

[Nightstorm]

That's interesting. I guess what I'm asking is what would be the ECL of an weretiger and half celestrial.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I'm afraid that ALL my dragon mag's been destroyed due various mishaps such as a burglary and a misunderstanding with my former landlord.

But OTTOMH if think the half-celestrial was +5, and the weretiger +7. Remember that you have to be a 6th level character to take the weretiger template at all.

 

[Nightstorm]

you poor guy. I think that's still too low. I mean come on +12!! I'm making the weretiger a +13 .

 

[hong]

you poor guy. I think that's still too low. I mean come on +12!! I'm making the weretiger a +13 .

Huge gobs of Strength isn't really that big a deal at high levels. You may be able to dish it out in melee, but things like giants and dragons are almost certainly still going to be able to do it better than you. Other factors start becoming more important, like being able to fly and teleport, and being durable enough to survive a major fight. Too high an ECL, and the guy just isn't going to have enough hit points to cut it.

Also, consider that a 7th level wizard could cast polymorph other on you and turn you into a troll or giant, and you get all the benefits of that huge Str. This alone suggests that the ECL shouldn't be more than about +7 or +8.

 

[Seule]

In the latest Dragon, an Ogre (with +10 Str) is given as a +2 ECL, for a total (with the 4 HD of Giant) of +6. And that's a Large creature. Strength isn't everything.

--Seule

 

[Nightstorm]

But we're not talking just about a strength bonus. We're talking about Stren, con , dex , three feats, the abilitie to talk to other tigers and the ablitile to persuade them to help you PLUS being able to infect people with lycanthropy EVERY time you bite them PLUS damage reduction /silver. amoung other things.

 

[Hashmalum]

But we're not talking just about a strength bonus. We're talking about Stren, con , dex , three feats, the abilitie to talk to other tigers and the ablitile to persuade them to help you PLUS being able to infect people with lycanthropy EVERY time you bite them PLUS damage reduction /silver. amoung other things.

Why is being able to infect people with lycanthropy useful?

 

[Corlon]

Well on the half celestial, yes it can be made cheep, yes it sounds better than +3 ECL, but in one of my old campaigns, the characters were level 10, and one was half celestial. He had some cool moments with flying and more bonus spells, but he still didn't think it made up for three levels of sorcerer.

As said earlier, make ECLs too high, and at high levels they will be blown away.