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Message: <blockquote data-quote="datreus" data-source="post: 9107387" data-attributes="member: 7042671">The issue here is that I think you misunderstood what that part of the conversation was about and I didn't understand that you didn't understand, so apologies for that.That's right. The issue is that some people are misreading the book pretty obviously and propagating very misleading ideas.It's a very valid statement - there is a HUGE element of performativity with earlier editions of werewolf, and that's an important argument. It's a good question to consider that if people in that generation had done more - rather than 'performed' through things like RPGS - would we be in the current state? If people had actually hit the streets and done the things their characters were doing (with a little less shapeshifting and ultraviolence).That's the point being made. This edition of werewolf asks more questions about human agency in the apocalypse rather than the ITS ALL THE EVILLLL WYRRRRMMM DOING IT. Most Gen X and boomer players wanted it to be an abstract conflict because, ultimately, they benefited from the status quo at that point in time and it was easier to distance by making it about boogeymen. This isn't something restricted to RPGs or Werewolf - the last three decades have seen this shift in all areas of our media.Look outside your window. This didn't happen by accident. It's because those generations didn't stop it. How do I know? I was there, and still am. If we had, this wouldn't have happened. I am to blame - for my inaction - for the world my descendants inherit, not the other way round.This is based on a misunderstanding I think. First off, simplistic notions of "Corporations bad!  Nature lovers good!" in general society are indeed unhelpful. It is incredibly widespread - most people do think that corporations are bad, nature good. The point being made is that thinking doesn't - as you point out - translate to doing. In fact, that's actually what stops people doing.More importantly, in terms of werewolf - which is what we are talking about - that simplistic performatism is what the game directly addresses. The older generations of garou were more invested in making it look like they were doing the right thing than actually doing it in a meaningful way and as a result - apocalypse.I'd say this is the biggest area of concern with W5. It points out - rightly - that the Renown system is dodgy AF and lends itself to self aggrandisement over actual meaningful outcomes. The problem is, it still uses Renown to 'grade' character access to powers. IMHO that's a major failing and probably the biggest one. A much better take would have let people advance their gifts through merit or effort rather than relying on social approbation.This edition of Werewolf raises an uncomfortable truth - that the 90s/00s/10s didn't stop the apocalypse happening. It only would have been stopped if nice middle class people had got out of their nice middle class homes and taken to the streets en masse to fight corporate greed. And they didn't because at the end of the day, they enjoyed their privilege too much.That's why younger generations have been left a derelict planet. This isn't debatable - but privileged people don't want to talk about it because of cognitive dissonance. They want to see themselves as heroes who did their best, rather than people who essentially encouraged it, tacitly or not.That's very much woven into the fabric of W5 and it's pretty clearly sparking a lot of understandable ire.</blockquote>

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