Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What 3.5 feats would you use to duplicate 4E's monster roles?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dandu" data-source="post: 5110253" data-attributes="member: 85158"><p>At level 20, where this feat gives its maximum benefit, you only get 20 extra HP. Improved Toughness is best on casters or anyone else with tiny, D4 hit dice, and even then, casters have better option (Faerie Mysteries Initiate allows you to use Int instead of Con Mod for calculating HP for wizards, for example.)</p><p></p><p>At any other level, its usefulness drops off quickly.</p><p>Good HP and fortitude save boosting feats are more appropriate.</p><p><a href="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Leap_Attack" target="_blank"></a></p><p><a href="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Leap_Attack" target="_blank">Steadfast Determination</a>: Prerequisite Endurance. Allows you to use Con mod instead of Wis mod for will saves. Also prevents you from failing a fort save on a natural one.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Leap_Attack" target="_blank">Leap Attack</a> requires 5 ranks in jump, and allows you to double the damage on a charge if wielding a two handed weapon. (The text says triple, but I'm fairly sure it was errata'd.)</p><p><a href="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Shock_Trooper" target="_blank">Shock Trooper</a> requires Improved Bull Rush, and allows you to assign your Power Attack penalties from a charge to your AC, among other things.</p><p><a href="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Combat_Brute" target="_blank">Combat Brute</a> requires Improved Sunder, and allows you to take a penalty of -5 or more on an attack you make after charging and deal x3 damage if you wield a 2 handed weapon, among other things.</p><p>There's more you can add on to this, such as <a href="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Battle_Jump" target="_blank">Battle Jump</a> and <a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a" target="_blank">Headlong Rush</a> along with items such as a Valorous weapon (an enchantment that doubles the damage on a charge), and other ways of adding damage (Rhino's Hide armor from the PHB gives +2d6 on a charge)</p><p></p><p>Note: If you have two x2 charging damage feats (or items, or etc), the actual damage multiplier increases to x3, not x4. It just goes up a step. Likewise, if you had three x2 feats, it goes up to x4. (I think)</p><p></p><p>I postulate that this is a better use of feats.</p><p></p><p>Pounce can be acquired through two Incarnum feats, Open Least Chakara and Sphinx Claws. Alternatively, have the Brute take one level in the Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian from Complete Champion for pounce as a class feature, or apply the +1 LA Feral template.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Skirmishers would be highly mobile, which to me evokes an image of spring attacking. Charging melee monsters that deal large damage on charges but don't have the mobility are not strikers to me.</p><p></p><p>So why not use a feat that is both flavorful <em>and </em>good?</p><p></p><p>Here's the issue with flavoring things without paying attention to the mechanics: you can spice up a monster all you want and make it seem like the deadliest thing on Oerth, but if it dies in one round after combat starts, then what's the point of your flavor? You have to have mechanics to back it up.</p><p></p><p>Take for example the CR 20 Tarresque. Flavored as this devastating monster... but you're effectively invulnerable to it if you can fly. Overland Flight is a spell that wizards get at level 9. It can be killed by a level 13 party that tries really hard, or by one level 20 caster that tries moderately hard. </p><p></p><p>What we have here is an example of the fluff being rather incongruitous with the crunch, and it turns the Tarresque from this massive threat to a joke.</p><p></p><p>Incidentally, I believe the Tarresque chose Toughness for all of its feats?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dandu, post: 5110253, member: 85158"] At level 20, where this feat gives its maximum benefit, you only get 20 extra HP. Improved Toughness is best on casters or anyone else with tiny, D4 hit dice, and even then, casters have better option (Faerie Mysteries Initiate allows you to use Int instead of Con Mod for calculating HP for wizards, for example.) At any other level, its usefulness drops off quickly. Good HP and fortitude save boosting feats are more appropriate. [URL="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Leap_Attack"] Steadfast Determination[/URL]: Prerequisite Endurance. Allows you to use Con mod instead of Wis mod for will saves. Also prevents you from failing a fort save on a natural one. [URL="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Leap_Attack"]Leap Attack[/URL] requires 5 ranks in jump, and allows you to double the damage on a charge if wielding a two handed weapon. (The text says triple, but I'm fairly sure it was errata'd.) [URL="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Shock_Trooper"]Shock Trooper[/URL] requires Improved Bull Rush, and allows you to assign your Power Attack penalties from a charge to your AC, among other things. [URL="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Combat_Brute"]Combat Brute[/URL] requires Improved Sunder, and allows you to take a penalty of -5 or more on an attack you make after charging and deal x3 damage if you wield a 2 handed weapon, among other things. There's more you can add on to this, such as [URL="http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Battle_Jump"]Battle Jump[/URL] and [URL="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a"]Headlong Rush[/URL] along with items such as a Valorous weapon (an enchantment that doubles the damage on a charge), and other ways of adding damage (Rhino's Hide armor from the PHB gives +2d6 on a charge) Note: If you have two x2 charging damage feats (or items, or etc), the actual damage multiplier increases to x3, not x4. It just goes up a step. Likewise, if you had three x2 feats, it goes up to x4. (I think) I postulate that this is a better use of feats. Pounce can be acquired through two Incarnum feats, Open Least Chakara and Sphinx Claws. Alternatively, have the Brute take one level in the Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian from Complete Champion for pounce as a class feature, or apply the +1 LA Feral template. Skirmishers would be highly mobile, which to me evokes an image of spring attacking. Charging melee monsters that deal large damage on charges but don't have the mobility are not strikers to me. So why not use a feat that is both flavorful [I]and [/I]good? Here's the issue with flavoring things without paying attention to the mechanics: you can spice up a monster all you want and make it seem like the deadliest thing on Oerth, but if it dies in one round after combat starts, then what's the point of your flavor? You have to have mechanics to back it up. Take for example the CR 20 Tarresque. Flavored as this devastating monster... but you're effectively invulnerable to it if you can fly. Overland Flight is a spell that wizards get at level 9. It can be killed by a level 13 party that tries really hard, or by one level 20 caster that tries moderately hard. What we have here is an example of the fluff being rather incongruitous with the crunch, and it turns the Tarresque from this massive threat to a joke. Incidentally, I believe the Tarresque chose Toughness for all of its feats? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What 3.5 feats would you use to duplicate 4E's monster roles?
Top