Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
What 4th Level Feat for a Cleric of Trickery?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 7971747" data-attributes="member: 6966824"><p>Re: not having needed War Caster, keep in mind that you don't have Spirit Guardians yet, and when you get it, keeping up your concentration is going to do more damage most of the time than any attacking you do. Elven Accuracy does also boost your DC and give you another spell preparation, but on a "save for half" spell, the effect of a higher DC is basically halved. Even if you are in dim-light and using shadow blade at a 3rd level slot, it should be doing about 14-15 damage a round to one target without elven accuracy, vs 16-17 damage with elven accuracy. On the other hand, spirit guardians isn't dependent on dim light for its damage, it does damage to multiple targets, and also has a control effect attached. </p><p></p><p>So I disagree with Frog Reaver that Shadow Blade + Elven Accuracy is better for single target damage than Spirit Guardians + War Caster. Math: SG adds about 10-11 damage per target per round on top of whatever else you're doing with your action --- even just a basic dagger attack without advantage plus spirit guardians against just one target is about as much damage as you do with your concentration and action from a 3rd level shadow blade attack, comparing the least favorable circumstances for SG to the most favorable circumstances for SB. War Caster gives you about a 22% bump to your chance of passing a concentration save, so the first time you get hit it's essentially doing 2-3 damage from that feature alone, and it compounds: for example, if you get hit three times, the cumulative chance of losing concentration somewhere in there goes down by about 40 percentage points with war caster. </p><p></p><p>And of course, should you decide to use shadow blade in a particular situation, War Caster helps it also, since you also have to concentrate on it. In dim light, losing concentration on shadow blade takes you from 3d8+4 with advantage (about 14-15 damage) to a 2d12 cantrip which averages about 7-8 damage. Much bigger difference than the 2ish DPR bump you get from elven accuracy.</p><p></p><p>As far as taking a level of an arcane caster class, Wizard 1 offers you the most, with 3 more spells known, including access to a Familiar, at the cost of a cantrip. Divine Soul Sorcerer is also worth considering, though, because their Favored by the Gods feature is really good. And yeah, I'd definitely wait at least until after 5th, if not until after 7th to multiclass, because polymorph is at its best right at 7th and gets gradually worse from there.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Esker, post: 7971747, member: 6966824"] Re: not having needed War Caster, keep in mind that you don't have Spirit Guardians yet, and when you get it, keeping up your concentration is going to do more damage most of the time than any attacking you do. Elven Accuracy does also boost your DC and give you another spell preparation, but on a "save for half" spell, the effect of a higher DC is basically halved. Even if you are in dim-light and using shadow blade at a 3rd level slot, it should be doing about 14-15 damage a round to one target without elven accuracy, vs 16-17 damage with elven accuracy. On the other hand, spirit guardians isn't dependent on dim light for its damage, it does damage to multiple targets, and also has a control effect attached. So I disagree with Frog Reaver that Shadow Blade + Elven Accuracy is better for single target damage than Spirit Guardians + War Caster. Math: SG adds about 10-11 damage per target per round on top of whatever else you're doing with your action --- even just a basic dagger attack without advantage plus spirit guardians against just one target is about as much damage as you do with your concentration and action from a 3rd level shadow blade attack, comparing the least favorable circumstances for SG to the most favorable circumstances for SB. War Caster gives you about a 22% bump to your chance of passing a concentration save, so the first time you get hit it's essentially doing 2-3 damage from that feature alone, and it compounds: for example, if you get hit three times, the cumulative chance of losing concentration somewhere in there goes down by about 40 percentage points with war caster. And of course, should you decide to use shadow blade in a particular situation, War Caster helps it also, since you also have to concentrate on it. In dim light, losing concentration on shadow blade takes you from 3d8+4 with advantage (about 14-15 damage) to a 2d12 cantrip which averages about 7-8 damage. Much bigger difference than the 2ish DPR bump you get from elven accuracy. As far as taking a level of an arcane caster class, Wizard 1 offers you the most, with 3 more spells known, including access to a Familiar, at the cost of a cantrip. Divine Soul Sorcerer is also worth considering, though, because their Favored by the Gods feature is really good. And yeah, I'd definitely wait at least until after 5th, if not until after 7th to multiclass, because polymorph is at its best right at 7th and gets gradually worse from there. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
What 4th Level Feat for a Cleric of Trickery?
Top