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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6007902" data-attributes="member: 87792">Other than healing surges, name three of them.&nbsp; (OK, Martial Dailies might qualify for a second).All the PC options in 4e that could cause problems are options at character generation.&nbsp; Don't like the Warlord able to shout people up off the ground?&nbsp; Ban him - and you've impacted precisely no other classes.&nbsp; Don't like Come And Get It?&nbsp; Ban it - and the fighter will just have to chose another 7th level daily power.&nbsp; But once they've chosen that, they are a perfectly decent 7th level fighter who isn't actually missing anything.Or, in my experience, all you have to do is say to your players &quot;This is the design of my world.&nbsp; Please design your characters in line with it.&quot;&nbsp; As long as the world is slightly larger than life it works well.&nbsp; And players won't be missing vast swathes of options.&nbsp; For that matter they won't be missing any options and you won't end up with a party feeling incomplete.Right now I'm playing a Middle Earth game - the DM's rules for character generation to fit Middle Earth were simple.&nbsp; &quot;All classes must be at least borderline martial&quot; (i.e. the Barbarian may technically be Primal but he qualifies) &quot;and no overt non-ritual magic.&nbsp; If you're not sure then ask the DM.&quot;&nbsp; Which is enough to produce characters that fit Middle Earth - larger than life and leading with sword or bow.&nbsp; And we have a healer (a Rohirrim Skald) who shouts to get people back into the fray.&nbsp; None of us are feeling cramped - we all have fully functional characters that are as effective as anything their level.&nbsp; And we have a balanced party.If we were to try doing that in any previous edition of D&amp;D, the rule would have to be &quot;No Vancian Casters or other primary casters&quot; as Vancian magic rates make Gandalf look weak.&nbsp; That's a game of D&amp;D without Wizards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerors or even Bards or Paladins (no Archivists, Artificiers, Binders, Favoured Souls, Swordsages, etc. either).&nbsp; Which really changes the game.&nbsp; It just about takes all healing out of the game.&nbsp; It means that the range of things within the game the PCs can't handle is very large.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6007902, member: 87792"] Other than healing surges, name three of them. (OK, Martial Dailies might qualify for a second). All the PC options in 4e that could cause problems are options at character generation. Don't like the Warlord able to shout people up off the ground? Ban him - and you've impacted precisely no other classes. Don't like Come And Get It? Ban it - and the fighter will just have to chose another 7th level daily power. But once they've chosen that, they are a perfectly decent 7th level fighter who isn't actually missing anything. Or, in my experience, all you have to do is say to your players "This is the design of my world. Please design your characters in line with it." As long as the world is slightly larger than life it works well. And players won't be missing vast swathes of options. For that matter they won't be missing any options and you won't end up with a party feeling incomplete. Right now I'm playing a Middle Earth game - the DM's rules for character generation to fit Middle Earth were simple. "All classes must be at least borderline martial" (i.e. the Barbarian may technically be Primal but he qualifies) "and no overt non-ritual magic. If you're not sure then ask the DM." Which is enough to produce characters that [I]fit[/I] Middle Earth - larger than life and leading with sword or bow. And we have a healer (a Rohirrim Skald) who shouts to get people back into the fray. None of us are feeling cramped - we all have fully functional characters that are as effective as anything their level. And we have a balanced party. If we were to try doing that in any previous edition of D&D, the rule would have to be "No Vancian Casters or other primary casters" as Vancian magic rates make Gandalf look weak. That's a game of D&D without Wizards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerors or even Bards or Paladins (no Archivists, Artificiers, Binders, Favoured Souls, Swordsages, etc. either). Which [I]really[/I] changes the game. It just about takes all healing out of the game. It means that the range of things within the game the PCs can't handle is very large. [/QUOTE]

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