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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6010116" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I too am baffled every time I hear this.  I've DMed all prior editions (and 8 years of 3.x) and none of them have provided the richness, coherent format and "ease of adjudication" within the stunt system...none of them have provided the dynamism of 4es terrain and hazard system and its entrenched tactical mobility.  Because of these things my players are MORE inclined than ever before to attempt stunts.  One such occurrence that comes to mind is a scene in an isolated Inn in a windswept pass at the top of the mountain.  The PCs had tracked a pair of antagonists (who were slave-trading, drug-smuggling gang rivals) there knowing that they were going to be there on neutral territory to broker a deal to end hostilities and divvy up territory.  The PCs thought that they had numbers in their favor as they had intelligence on both gangs' numbers.  Unfortunately, the Skill Challenge to gain the "intelligence" was failed and the PCs didn't realize that both gangs put out misinformation on the numbers/resources they would be bringing.  Instead of a small force, each gang had brought large numbers and were planning to attempt to assassinate their rivals' guildmaster and high ranking lieutenants.  Needless to say, this situation turned hairy quickly as the PCs attempted to "ambush" the rival guildmasters during their negotiations in the cordoned common room.  They were outgunned dramatically and reinforcements kept coming.  It was going to be a catastrophe...a TPK.  However, I put in several means by which the PCs could turn the situation into an impenetrable veil of chaos and turn the tide (or escape if needed).  - The large common room had 2 huge firepits (3 * 3 zone fire damage and ongoing - save ends) cut into the middle of the room.  - The vaulted ceiling housed a massive candelabra (5 * 5 blast - heavy damage, restrained - save ends and difficult terrain afterwards) supported by multiple chains...but on one main load-bearing truss (40 damage, DR 5).- The hardwood floor was covered wall-to-wall in finely spun (flammable) area rugs.  Oil lanterns adorned the walls and sat on endtables and roundtables throughout the large common room.  Burning rugs (2 * 2 zone fire damage and ongoing - save ends) would spread in a 2 * 2 each round.  The windows were open and the chamber was reasonably vented but when 20 squares are filled with fire, everyone at ground level has minor concealment.- The room was littered with furniture and area rugs to be yanked.  Large picture windows with heavy drapes adorned the walls.This truly epic combat was about 12 rounds (45 minutes for us...most of our combats are typically 4-6 rounds and are 15 minutes).  That puts it somewhere around 36 PC turns.  I suspect that at least half of those turns involved environment manipulation and stunts.  It was absolutely awesome.  I could have never pulled this off in prior editions (due to lack of ease of use, clear adjudication and PC expectation of adjudication and enough "punch/effectiveness per stunt" so the PCs would be inclined toward trying them)...and believe me I tried a thousand times over.  The combat was not winnable so after enough carnage was administered, an opening emerged while the inn was threatening to come down, so the PCs took advantage and beat a hasty retreat...after both guildmasters and a great many lieutenants lay dead.  We had an intense (successful) Skill Challenge to get the Innkeep and his family out of the Inn and slip away from the scene under the cover of night to avoid pursuit from the recovering gangs.  This was one of our early games.  I loved 4e before this but I would say that this was my group's seminal moment.</blockquote>

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