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Message: <blockquote data-quote="timASW" data-source="post: 6013067" data-attributes="member: 6698787">Ever hear the saying "one mans trash is another mans treasure"? Well those problems DID exist and maybe they were not a big deal or even treasure to you, but to ME they went a long towards me giving away my 4e books on craigslist the last time moved. It was that big of a trash to me.  I absolutely did no such thing. Not in any way, shape or form. I complained that in 4e, an improvised attack with a breastplate could apparently bypass AC and possibly stun an opponent when a mace cant.  Not a rule that I myself was familiar with but it was given an example of why 4e was better at that sort of thing so i went with it.  Theres nothing even slightly incompatible about lethal and non-lethal damage in 3e.4e. did exactly one thing right for most of us BUYERS who went to other companies. Free cantrips for casters. Thats it. Everything else was bad ideas done the wrong way for any sort of RPG I would ever want to play or run. Oh and pretty much everyone had either houseruled free cantrips already or just didnt keep track of them.  The "unified mechanics" were bad idea, poorly executed. All taking that lesson would do is doom 5e to a 4 year life cycle just like 4e. Probably less. Because heres what would happen. Everyone who didnt like 4e would look at that and say "looks like 4e again. NVM" and stick with whatever their playing now. 4e players might buy some of the books but you already have your game. Some might switch over completely but not all. So all they would wind up doing is further fracturing their currently fractured base. Pretty much the complete 180 of their stated goal.You have to remember their goal here is not just to put out more stuff that 4e players will love. its ALSO and perhaps more importantly to put stuff in it that those of us who left the company will love and want to pay for again. The only way they're going to be able to do that is if they listen to us about the things we didnt like and why we didnt like them. Not keep giving justifications of why we really should like it and just dont understand its awesomeness. An at least somewhat honest, and humble acceptance that they F'ed up in our opinions and they are absolutely NOT going to get our dollars back if they shovel any more of the same stuff at us that we turned down before already. And they definately need to lose the attitude that came with the 4e marketing and interviews, blogs, etc. that all the rest of us were idiots who didnt know what we liked and just couldnt understand how great their game was.</blockquote>

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