Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What about D&D 5e levels 21-30?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jer" data-source="post: 7802163" data-attributes="member: 19857"><p>There are a lot of reasons that Epic level support ends up being a no-go area for WotC. Epic level adventures are hard to write - the power level of Epic characters means that you have to rethink what it means to challenge them. It's not so much the battles - which is mostly a matter of math and encounter design (though 5e certainly doesn't help as much with this as it could) - but the rest of the challenges that make up an adventure. Either you have to be really creative in designing the scenario - and risk creating something that a whole lot of people say "well, that doesn't feel like D&D to me" or you have to "nerf" the power level and force the characters into situations where their awesome powers can't help them - in which case why are you bothering to run an Epic campaign?</p><p></p><p>Then there are the constraints that the culture around the game has created to make Epic play less viable for a large swathe of the people playing. If you've got a group who believe that playing a campaign means that you start at level 1, then you're talking a fairly serious investment of time in getting your characters up to that epic level. And since the game shifts significantly in how it is played around level 5 or so, you see a lot of people who really enjoy the level 1-5 play experience start to get dissatisfied with the game and agitate to start a new campaign around level 10 or so. If there were more groups who were willing to create 15th level characters and just run an epic game there'd be more of a market for epic material.</p><p></p><p>For myself, my 5e groups are still in that 5-10 tier and so there aren't any worries on that front yet (and they're mostly kids and so they think the gameplay at those levels is awesome rather than unsatisfying). And my group that is at "epic" levels is playing 13th Age. What I've noticed when I've run Epic games in the past - including my 13A game currently - is that the stories almost have to be more personalized to the group than lower level ones are. Sure I'll mine things like old Companion/Master set adventures for ideas, but when the game hits the table I've usually modified them heavily to fit my group's needs. So even if Wizards were putting out good solid Epic level material, it might not be something I'd be buying because, well, I'd still have to put a lot of work into it to make it fit my campaign.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jer, post: 7802163, member: 19857"] There are a lot of reasons that Epic level support ends up being a no-go area for WotC. Epic level adventures are hard to write - the power level of Epic characters means that you have to rethink what it means to challenge them. It's not so much the battles - which is mostly a matter of math and encounter design (though 5e certainly doesn't help as much with this as it could) - but the rest of the challenges that make up an adventure. Either you have to be really creative in designing the scenario - and risk creating something that a whole lot of people say "well, that doesn't feel like D&D to me" or you have to "nerf" the power level and force the characters into situations where their awesome powers can't help them - in which case why are you bothering to run an Epic campaign? Then there are the constraints that the culture around the game has created to make Epic play less viable for a large swathe of the people playing. If you've got a group who believe that playing a campaign means that you start at level 1, then you're talking a fairly serious investment of time in getting your characters up to that epic level. And since the game shifts significantly in how it is played around level 5 or so, you see a lot of people who really enjoy the level 1-5 play experience start to get dissatisfied with the game and agitate to start a new campaign around level 10 or so. If there were more groups who were willing to create 15th level characters and just run an epic game there'd be more of a market for epic material. For myself, my 5e groups are still in that 5-10 tier and so there aren't any worries on that front yet (and they're mostly kids and so they think the gameplay at those levels is awesome rather than unsatisfying). And my group that is at "epic" levels is playing 13th Age. What I've noticed when I've run Epic games in the past - including my 13A game currently - is that the stories almost have to be more personalized to the group than lower level ones are. Sure I'll mine things like old Companion/Master set adventures for ideas, but when the game hits the table I've usually modified them heavily to fit my group's needs. So even if Wizards were putting out good solid Epic level material, it might not be something I'd be buying because, well, I'd still have to put a lot of work into it to make it fit my campaign. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What about D&D 5e levels 21-30?
Top