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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primal" data-source="post: 4049736" data-attributes="member: 30678">It really depends on your group's gaming style whether these 'Non-Heroic' skills play a part in your 4E campaign or not. While I think it's reasonable to merge some of them together (e.g. Tumble and Balance folded into Acrobatics), I don't like that they're going to ignore all skills not related to adventuring ("fluffy" skills) in the game mechanics. I think this was also confirmed in Ari's (or John's?) Playtest Report?As my group really embraced the Craft skill in 3E, I am somewhat concerned over seeing the game mechanics concerning Craft being shifted towards Secondary Skills (as Mike Mearls said would be his preference) *and* letting players freely pick them. A couple of players in my group would pick as many as they could fit on their character sheets...I am especially leery of letting players themselves define how skilled their PCs can be, and I hope this will be adressed in the rules beyond the usual "The DM will have the final word over this matter". If my 1st level PC can be a Master Armorsmith and there are no mechanics governing over this, is it legal to state that I have crafted a Full Plate before the campaign begins? If not, why? Wouldn't it make sense if my backstory (which the DM agreed to) includes my character owning a smithy. And I'd also like to ask my DM how much more Starting Money my Master Painter/Master Armorsmith has earned. Or how much extra GPs he earns per month -- assuming that there will also be some "downtime" from adventuring? Some people (including playtesters and designers) seem to think that these "fluffy" skills are unimportant and work best as vaguely defined "hobbies". I disagree. All this would not really matter *if* wealth had *no* mechanical impact or advantage in D&D. If we were talking about systems like Dust Devils or Polaris, it'd not matter whether your character owned a luxurious saloon or crafted the best swords in the world (in fact, this would give everyone *more* "meat" for storytelling) because these things don't give you any mechanical advantage or "leverage" in these games. In D&D, it sadly does. These are valid concerns, since (as I already stated) almost every 3E character in my group has had ranks in these skills -- some campaigns have even revolved around their shops/smithies/inns. Therefore I'd expect that if we tried 4E, at least some of the guys would want to know how those skills benefit their PCs in practise (i.e. how their PCs can benefit from them).I'd hate to refer to 3E Craft/Profession rules or 'houserule' this, because it implies that there may be a *lot* more to houserule in 4E to make it work for my group's style.</blockquote>

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