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What about the rouge?
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<blockquote data-quote="ZombieRoboNinja" data-source="post: 6020476" data-attributes="member: 54843"><p>As for the expert/trickster/etc. thing, maybe we can take a cue from the 5e fighter here.</p><p></p><p>The fighter's only distinction is that he's "really good at fighting with weapons," which is ridiculously broad. Fencers, archers, wrestlers, etc. are all fighters. How could this possibly work? As it turns out, quite nicely with Combat Superiority: you get a good attack bonus and the ability to dish out lots of damage, block lots of damage, and choose from a suite of others powers. Voila: passable archers, fencers, etc. are all possible.</p><p></p><p>Rogues, then, are "really good at applying skills, both in and out of combat." The way this works out in combat is that they use their skills to obtain combat advantage, and then deal extra damage/effects through Sneak Attack when they have it. </p><p></p><p>In other words, at their mechanical core, they are experts. But like fighters, you SHOULD be able to build a trickster or a thug or a skirmisher out of that core.</p><p></p><p>The trick will be giving the rogue flexible but explicit options to make those skills work in combat, exploration, and social situations. I imagine a list of Skill Tricks that you can choose from starting at first level.</p><p></p><p>For example, let's say you make a Noble-background, Thief-scheme rogue. You can start out with the Skill Trick "Sneaky," which would be the same as the level 1 Lurker feat. (I'd say switching the level 1 lurker feat with the rogue "thief sneaking" power would be a good move.) This makes it much easier to Sneak Attack in combat. </p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, an Acrobat-scheme rogue might start with the Tumbling Strike maneuver, which lets you roll a Tumble check to move without drawing attacks of opportunity - and lets you attack with advantage if you end your move next to an opponent you didn't start adjacent to. And a Charlatan-scheme rogue might be able to use Bluff to feint in combat, making a fake attack in order to put your opponent off balance so you can attack with advantage next round.</p><p></p><p>Then, as you level up, you pick additional Skill Tricks tied to other skills you're trained in. There wouldn't have to be a Skill Trick for every skill - Arcana, Knowledge (Local), etc. - because the schemes would give you at last 3 strong options. There could be multiple Skill Tricks associated with certain skills too. Maybe there'd be a Skill Trick to hide as a move action, or something. That way, you could pick a nice array of them as you level.</p><p></p><p>A trickster rogue could pick skill tricks based on bluff, insight, etc.; a criminal could pick skill tricks based on intimidate, etc; a skirmisher based on jump, tumble, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ZombieRoboNinja, post: 6020476, member: 54843"] As for the expert/trickster/etc. thing, maybe we can take a cue from the 5e fighter here. The fighter's only distinction is that he's "really good at fighting with weapons," which is ridiculously broad. Fencers, archers, wrestlers, etc. are all fighters. How could this possibly work? As it turns out, quite nicely with Combat Superiority: you get a good attack bonus and the ability to dish out lots of damage, block lots of damage, and choose from a suite of others powers. Voila: passable archers, fencers, etc. are all possible. Rogues, then, are "really good at applying skills, both in and out of combat." The way this works out in combat is that they use their skills to obtain combat advantage, and then deal extra damage/effects through Sneak Attack when they have it. In other words, at their mechanical core, they are experts. But like fighters, you SHOULD be able to build a trickster or a thug or a skirmisher out of that core. The trick will be giving the rogue flexible but explicit options to make those skills work in combat, exploration, and social situations. I imagine a list of Skill Tricks that you can choose from starting at first level. For example, let's say you make a Noble-background, Thief-scheme rogue. You can start out with the Skill Trick "Sneaky," which would be the same as the level 1 Lurker feat. (I'd say switching the level 1 lurker feat with the rogue "thief sneaking" power would be a good move.) This makes it much easier to Sneak Attack in combat. Meanwhile, an Acrobat-scheme rogue might start with the Tumbling Strike maneuver, which lets you roll a Tumble check to move without drawing attacks of opportunity - and lets you attack with advantage if you end your move next to an opponent you didn't start adjacent to. And a Charlatan-scheme rogue might be able to use Bluff to feint in combat, making a fake attack in order to put your opponent off balance so you can attack with advantage next round. Then, as you level up, you pick additional Skill Tricks tied to other skills you're trained in. There wouldn't have to be a Skill Trick for every skill - Arcana, Knowledge (Local), etc. - because the schemes would give you at last 3 strong options. There could be multiple Skill Tricks associated with certain skills too. Maybe there'd be a Skill Trick to hide as a move action, or something. That way, you could pick a nice array of them as you level. A trickster rogue could pick skill tricks based on bluff, insight, etc.; a criminal could pick skill tricks based on intimidate, etc; a skirmisher based on jump, tumble, etc. [/QUOTE]
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