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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoonSong" data-source="post: 6172170" data-attributes="member: 6689464">The mage/Mu/wizard can posibly fit with many mechanical backgrounds, but  it already comes hardcoded with the academic baggage. You just cannot  escape that.I don't intend to take away the DM's ability to hardcode this at world  level, but I don't want the option to have it on an individual level  taken away from players either. The sorcerer class is pretty world  agnostic on this regard, a pseudogeneric mage class tailored to catter  to the academic mage is a poor fit for this one anyway.yes we don't need wo identical classes, but I'm not asking for sorcerers  to be identical to wizards, rather the opossite, I wouldn't be asking  for them to be a class if I wanted them to be identical to each other.  You see two classes that are identical except for casting stat and lore,  I see two classes that have nothing to do with each other except that  they can cast more or less the same spells, but the way they do it  doens't have to be the same.Well I've never had problems with DMs who think certain classes don't fit on their worlds, but that is a table issue. However they cannot chose if there is no sorcerer to begin with.List of things with the current mage that don't fit with the general flavor of a sorcerer-Int stat -Arcane Lore-The spellbook-Prepparing spells -Ritual Casting -Write scrolls -Perppare potions (but this is borderline)-Limited weapons available-Sublcasses built around schoolsThings that woulda sorcerer class would probably feature-Cast with cha -Option to pick any lore of choosing, not just scholarly ones-Probably a Charisma skill dice (this would be nice)-Perhaps choice of up to four cantrips -Obviously access to all simple weapons-slightly improved combat capability (nothing on the rogue's level of curse)-Could live with a slower spell progression, as long as the designers take measures to balance them on the grounds of lacking ritual casting, probalby an improved version of spell mastery at lower levels -Subclasses built around Bloodlines, including one open ended and "generic" and a more academic one (this one could indeed dedicate time to brew potions) Though a toned down draconic sorcerer from last year would still do (notice you cannot go more far away from a wizard than this while remainig on the same realm), yes I'm saying exactly that, one class mold that makes it impossible to translate many types of sorcerer is more sorcerer than any wizard inspired class could ever be. The same could be said of cleric deities, and guess what? they work just fine. We don't need hyper especiffic pacts for the warlock to work, 4e had enough flavors for the warlock to be satisfactory, and nobody complained about them being awkward, they work just fine. This is your opinion, and I respect it, however not everyone plays on such restricted worlds, I've been on campaigns of differing magic levels where warlocks, sorcerers and wizards coexist just fine. Just because you want to play on worlds were the flavor of magic is restricted to be very speciffic with little to no deviation doesn't mean the rest of us have to. Moreover you are so stuck on pacts and bloodlines being the "origin story" that  you fail to consider their effects don't end there, they really shape up the way a character develops and is played, to what extent they are affected is up to the player; the right balance between the mechanics that support and get out of the way when needed is key because of this. And it is easier when you only have to decide how much you want your pact/blodline affects you when you don't have to worry the unwanted wizardy baggae will get in the way.</blockquote>

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