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What are the most UNDER/OVER CRed Monsters in the Monster Manual?
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<blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 7232815" data-attributes="member: 6777737"><p>Over CR: Anything over CR ~11 or so with Damage Resistance overcome by magic weapons, especially demons and most undead. </p><p></p><p>We had a party of five and a half level 13 characters take out two Balors (CR <em>19</em>) in two encounters on the same day without much difficulty. We did have the advantage of being martially focused and only having one arcane spellcaster (Magic Resistance is a real beating for spellcasters) but other than they went down in two or three rounds and had no chance to get away. The fact that it has <em>misty step</em> 120' as an action instead of literal <em>teleport</em> really neuters these creatures.</p><p></p><p>It's one thing for the game to "not assume the PCs will have magic items." It's quite another to stat out end game monsters like nobody's ever going to find a <em>+1 weapon</em> or gain access to <em>magic weapon</em> at any point in 13 levels. Did the devs ever look at their own treasure tables? "Oh, but they're assuming you're not using them." I'm sorry, but that's stupid. Why wouldn't the devs design monsters around <em>all</em> the default rules for character progression that they themselves outlined? I've never seen a game go past level 6 where the martial characters didn't have at least a <em>+0 magic weapon</em> to give to the Fighter. "Well, that's just the way <em>you</em> play." No, it's the way the published adventures are written and the way the default rules tell you to play. There are no publish adventure paths that have zero magic weapons. The default rules tell you to roll for magic items. It's <em>unlikely</em> that you'll fail to find a magic weapon before level 10 if you're playing with the rules as presented unless your DMs is modifying something. So why does CR assume you're modifying something? Players shouldn't expect an item treadmill a-la the 4e parcel system where you get consistent and increasing rewards, but the game also shouldn't expect that that we're playing in the Hyborian Age. Even Middle Earth gave the protagonists several magic weapons. I mean, Forgotten Realms is the default setting, but the monsters are built around the assumption that the PCs won't have magic weapons? Come on....</p><p></p><p>Simply put, Balor should say: "CR 15 (CR 19 if the party cannot overcome non-magical defenses)" or "CR 15 (+50% XP if the party cannot overcome non-magical defenses)".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bacon Bits, post: 7232815, member: 6777737"] Over CR: Anything over CR ~11 or so with Damage Resistance overcome by magic weapons, especially demons and most undead. We had a party of five and a half level 13 characters take out two Balors (CR [I]19[/I]) in two encounters on the same day without much difficulty. We did have the advantage of being martially focused and only having one arcane spellcaster (Magic Resistance is a real beating for spellcasters) but other than they went down in two or three rounds and had no chance to get away. The fact that it has [I]misty step[/I] 120' as an action instead of literal [I]teleport[/I] really neuters these creatures. It's one thing for the game to "not assume the PCs will have magic items." It's quite another to stat out end game monsters like nobody's ever going to find a [I]+1 weapon[/I] or gain access to [I]magic weapon[/I] at any point in 13 levels. Did the devs ever look at their own treasure tables? "Oh, but they're assuming you're not using them." I'm sorry, but that's stupid. Why wouldn't the devs design monsters around [I]all[/I] the default rules for character progression that they themselves outlined? I've never seen a game go past level 6 where the martial characters didn't have at least a [I]+0 magic weapon[/I] to give to the Fighter. "Well, that's just the way [I]you[/I] play." No, it's the way the published adventures are written and the way the default rules tell you to play. There are no publish adventure paths that have zero magic weapons. The default rules tell you to roll for magic items. It's [I]unlikely[/I] that you'll fail to find a magic weapon before level 10 if you're playing with the rules as presented unless your DMs is modifying something. So why does CR assume you're modifying something? Players shouldn't expect an item treadmill a-la the 4e parcel system where you get consistent and increasing rewards, but the game also shouldn't expect that that we're playing in the Hyborian Age. Even Middle Earth gave the protagonists several magic weapons. I mean, Forgotten Realms is the default setting, but the monsters are built around the assumption that the PCs won't have magic weapons? Come on.... Simply put, Balor should say: "CR 15 (CR 19 if the party cannot overcome non-magical defenses)" or "CR 15 (+50% XP if the party cannot overcome non-magical defenses)". [/QUOTE]
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What are the most UNDER/OVER CRed Monsters in the Monster Manual?
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