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Message: <blockquote data-quote="squibbles" data-source="post: 8462596" data-attributes="member: 6937590">Hi all,Over in the <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/just-get-rid-of-saving-throws.336519/" target="_blank">necroed thread about saving throws</a>, posters past and present (post #8, sorta post #28) suggested a system to replace saving throws that is similar to the defenses in 4e: Instead of a spell (or other effect) giving its target the chance to make a saving throw, the spellcaster rolls to attack against a fixed number, the target's defense. The innovation suggested in that thread is to have the defenses be a PCs ability scores, i.e. a wizard casting fireball has to roll above the targets' dexterity ability scores to deal full damage. Defenses would then naturally vary between 8 and 20.Advantages of the house rule (from my point of view):<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">speed--instead of each affected target rolling to save, only the caster needs to roll</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">parsimony--there'd be fewer types of rolls in the game, just attack rolls and ability checks--and for all forms of attack, it'd be the initiator that makes the roll</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">simplicity--there'd be fewer numbers on the character sheet, and the spell list changes to implement the new rule would be minimal</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">dark and deadly magic--if I want to have spells that can miscast with horrible consequences (and I do), it's a lot easier to base them on a single caster-side roll</li> </ul>Disadvantages:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">math issues--this change would alter the balance of a bunch of interactions and, for the most part, saves/defenses wouldn't increase by level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">save proficiencies don't fit--do they still exist, how are they handled?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">issues with existing items and class features--things that modify saving throws would all need to be changed</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">strange implications--do traps make an attack roll? that seems odd (I would probably treat some sorts of traps and hazards as ability checks on making this change--i.e. "make a dexterity (acrobatics) check to avoid the collapsing floor", not "collapsing floor rolls a 14 to hit you.")</li> </ul>What do you all see as a the pitfalls of making this change? Is the math functional? Is there a more elegant, better balanced, or otherwise more advantageous way to eliminate saving throws? Have any of you tried something like this?And if you're attitude is "if it ain't broke don't fix it," well... fair enough, feel welcome to come and tell me off about it.</blockquote>

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