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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5727211" data-attributes="member: 11300">As you know I've been bubbling away for some time tinkering and slowly developing my own system (I have a really neat twist on the DC mechanic but that is for a different thread and time).I kind of figure it is like this:Take a particular skill, it does not matter which one because you want the following to be universal for all skills, whether it is Knowledge, Perception, Athletics or Attacking with a sword or Casting a spell.NoviceThe novice who has no particular capacity, ability (or disability) for the skill has a modifier of +0. This makes sense in that the 0 neatly represents a non-negative, non-positive number/modifier. As such, the limits of their capacity is a DC 20. As such, if any task is within the realms of capacity of the completely unskilled, the DC should be 20 or lower. In addition, a DC of 1 or lower is defined as being routine for even a novice.MasterNow lets go to the other end of the spectrum, to the master. The master can accomplish what is beyond the novice as a matter of routine. Numerically, this indicates a modifier of +20 or greater. Lets assume though that a +20 by definition is of a level of mastery (even if you can have grand masters or legendary use of the skill in question that may go beyond this +20 modifier). As such, a DC of 40 is at the limits of a master. Anything beyond that is of a difficulty that even a master would consider unachievable by reasonable means.ProficiencyNow the interesting question becomes where you then set someone who is not only familiar with a skill, but proficient. Is someone proficient, barely above the novice (modifier +2)? Is someone proficient highly differentiated from the novice (modifier +10)? Where you set proficiency sets the "curve" of your modifiers. Now my own opinion (and my experience from playing international level pool) is that someone who is proficient, and someone who is a master can accomplish somewhat similar things. The difference between them is the consistency with which the master can produce these high results. As such my inclination would be to try and raise someone proficient to as high a level as possible (to about +8 to +10).The beauty of this is that it also representative of the fact that a novice's inability can be advanced to proficiency quite quickly (proficiency can be achieved at 1st level) but that mastery takes far longer (thus giving the "curve" I'm talking about).Note that such a way of looking at things is absolute rather than relative. I prefer a more universal absolute DC system that mirrors a set of reasonable expectations to one relative and less directly informative.ModifiersThe interesting question I have now is looking at two polar uses of the DC skill system. What do you do with a skill that is almost purely about physical or mental capacity (almost completely reliant on the ability modifier) and one that is almost all about training where the ability modifier has a little effect (such as the most esoteric knowledge)? What things go into the modifier of such skills? What things go onto a modifier?I think the best way of dealing with this, and staying within the system is to break every modifier down into 5 things. I'll use the athletic pursuit of swimming as an example:- Ability: The ability modifier will always have an effect. Strength would be the main attribute here.- General Experience and Capacity: This refers to how good the character is athletically in a general sense. Gross motor skills are the order of the day here.- Specific Experience or Capacity: This refers to whether the character has any particular capacity in swimming versus other athletic pursuits such as climbing or running or jumping.- Equipment: This refers to objects or things that may assist such as flippers or buoyancy apparel but also to things that may hinder such as armor or bulkier apparel. [For a melee skill, a masterwork sword might provide a +3 bonus where as a dull used sword may provide a -1 penalty or worse.]All of the above do not stack within themselves (you may remember this CJ from the other thread). A +3 general bonus from one general source and a +2 general bonus from a different source do not stack. [Edit: Sorry, Equipment modifiers should stack as well as the special bonuses below] - Special: This is your circumstance bonus, magical bonus, or holy bonus or what have you. All of these "special" bonuses do stack. The trick is that Special bonuses are usually derived from transitory rather than permanent effects. This is the best way to have variety, while keeping things balanced and having the capacity to strictly enforce modifier caps on each of these five modifier sources.Hopefully there are some ideas in there that can get you thinking.Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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