Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What are the practical limits of d20+mod vs DC?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dannager" data-source="post: 5727331" data-attributes="member: 73683"><p>The size of the die is <strong><em>not</em></strong> the issue. At all.</p><p></p><p>The issue is the compound effect that character options (like feats, for instance) have on specialization. A 1st-level character's ability to specialize is very limited, while a 20th-level character's ability to specialize is very large. If those characters choose to act on that ability to specialize, the DC system will break down at about the same point no matter what your die size is.</p><p></p><p>To illustrate, if at 1st level the difference between no specialization (no character options invested in that particular skill) and full specialization (every character option possible invested in that particular skill) is five points, then you might decide to use a d10 for your core mechanic because it handles the influence of random chance for your range fairly well. But if your characters then reach level 20 and the difference between no specialization and full specialization is <strong><em>30</em></strong>, your d10 no longer serves you well if you want to keep chances of success/failure fairly static (<strong><em>note</em></strong>: this isn't necessarily desirable!). But you can't change it to a d50 (or whatever), because if you did then your 1st level characters' choices in terms of skill investment would matter very little.</p><p></p><p>The <strong><em>only</em></strong> impact die size has is on how much of a given check's success depends on chance. The larger the die size relative to the <strong><em>median and spread of the DCs</em></strong> (<em><strong>not</strong></em> the size of the DCs), the bigger the role that chance will play.</p><p></p><p>Again, size of die type doesn't really matter, in terms of when the system will break down. Size of bonuses doesn't really matter, in terms of when the system will break down. The gradual increase in the specialization gap that is the result of an accumulation of character options as level increases is what's important.</p><p></p><p>And, really, none of this is inherently a bad thing. Continued investment of character options in specialization should be <em>rewarded</em>. The only danger lies in allowing a specialized character to perpetually "pick his battles" in such a way that he is only ever faced with challenges that play to the strengths of his specializations.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dannager, post: 5727331, member: 73683"] The size of the die is [B][I]not[/I][/B] the issue. At all. The issue is the compound effect that character options (like feats, for instance) have on specialization. A 1st-level character's ability to specialize is very limited, while a 20th-level character's ability to specialize is very large. If those characters choose to act on that ability to specialize, the DC system will break down at about the same point no matter what your die size is. To illustrate, if at 1st level the difference between no specialization (no character options invested in that particular skill) and full specialization (every character option possible invested in that particular skill) is five points, then you might decide to use a d10 for your core mechanic because it handles the influence of random chance for your range fairly well. But if your characters then reach level 20 and the difference between no specialization and full specialization is [B][I]30[/I][/B], your d10 no longer serves you well if you want to keep chances of success/failure fairly static ([B][I]note[/I][/B]: this isn't necessarily desirable!). But you can't change it to a d50 (or whatever), because if you did then your 1st level characters' choices in terms of skill investment would matter very little. The [B][I]only[/I][/B] impact die size has is on how much of a given check's success depends on chance. The larger the die size relative to the [B][I]median and spread of the DCs[/I][/B] ([I][B]not[/B][/I] the size of the DCs), the bigger the role that chance will play. Again, size of die type doesn't really matter, in terms of when the system will break down. Size of bonuses doesn't really matter, in terms of when the system will break down. The gradual increase in the specialization gap that is the result of an accumulation of character options as level increases is what's important. And, really, none of this is inherently a bad thing. Continued investment of character options in specialization should be [I]rewarded[/I]. The only danger lies in allowing a specialized character to perpetually "pick his battles" in such a way that he is only ever faced with challenges that play to the strengths of his specializations. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What are the practical limits of d20+mod vs DC?
Top