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Message: <blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 5735489" data-attributes="member: 3192">That should be "the modifier is almost 42 times the roll results for the highest roll." Don't post tired I guess. Or too casually <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Also, my post wasn't meant to be against anything in 4E. Their tier system is why they d20 vs. DC roll works for 30 levels. They have 10 levels of d20+x for Heroic and d20+x+ ?? 20? I'm not sure. This adds to the practical difficulty of addition for players, but it's still in the double digits. Not rocket science. I think they do it so 11th level Paragons can still face 10th level Heroic challenges for example. It blends well. With the 8382 modifier I was trying to say it makes the roll irrelevant (or mostly to whatever degree) because the game becomes a compare-your-scores diceless game. The higher the numbers involved the more rarely a d20 die need be rolled. Why spend the time? Auto-success and auto-failure are the name of the game for many diceless or randomizer free games. One drawback I was trying to point out about going over 18 as a modifier limit is lower level challenges stop being challenges. For example, a level 1 foe with DC 10s [not airplanes] stops being a challenge versus anyone with a modifier of 9. They have auto-success. In retrospect I guess auto-success would happen routinely starting with DC 2s, so we might try having all DCs at 10 or over and then use a mod limit of 9. Is making low level challenges auto-successful bad? Not really, but I would say, like any rule set, it molds to some playstyles better than others. Can we go back and face the level 1 kobolds at level 20? Yes, but there is no chance of failure. There may even be 0% chance of being hit. We've "tiered" out of the kobolds effectiveness. I said stuff like this were mosquitoes, but in-game mosquitoes already are in this condition. (Really, who runs a challenge vs. a CR 0.00000001 mosquito? or any CR below 1?) Most any game already presumes a low end of what is challenging as well as a high.Whatever the choice, in design terms I think knowing how dice and numbers change the game in terms of relevancy as well as practicalities at the table helps.</blockquote>

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