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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6502027" data-attributes="member: 67338">now if you want to say 4e wasn't perfect... we are on the same page, it did get better about that at the end. Yes most caster could cover any role in 3e (and most roles in 2e) so could non casters but not the same way... You could make a controller fighter in 2e or 3e, but he was specialized, the wizard could just change spell prep. the main problem I have is that you can totally talk freely about role in 4e, but in 5e it seems to be a no go... not that sneak attack isn't a striker feature, and that there feat is a defender (one with a mark) and that certain spells are one or another... yup, and fighter in 3e wasn't really good at much inless you put most or all of your feats toward it...except as my example showed... years before 4e came out the idea of the warlock was the same, and MUCH easier to express using the 4e words...  ok, so what was a monk, and warlock... I bet if you ask 100 3.5 players you can't even get half of them to agree... because they muddied the water and hide what they did...(((To be fair 4e still wasn't perfect because it didn't openly talk about secondary and other options))) just like 4e, except you had terms and out in the open options... "Gee phb 1 says a fighter is a defender, but I can build one that does as much damage as a rogue..." "Yea, because they are secondary striker with a bit of work you can make them strikers"it was quite good infact because it lead to open discussion around th etable about what tactics and abilities worked best... ok lets see...my problem is that I do see there was good and bad in 4e, and things I wish 5e had, and things I'm really glade 5e didn't.... but when I come to talk about it it just seems there is always someone "correcting" people and in general being jerks...to an extent you are right, but also wrong... see those terms (not even all the best ones) are ones used to explain "Hey this class does X well" something missing in other editions.now you lost me... that was my thought as well, so... um I don't understand,,, that's how it worked in 4e too</blockquote>

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