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What are the Roles now?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6503353" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>And in 4e anyone can get in the way and block the enemy from attacking the wounded. Anyone can do damage. Anyone can bring people back onto their feet. And anyone can disrupt the GM's plans. It is just that you are specifically good at some and not terribly good at others based on your class and choices. This is <em>exactly</em> the same as in previous editions. (Indeed any 4e character is better able to pick other people up in 4e than in other editions due to the Second Wind and heal rules).</p><p></p><p>4e roles are like soccer positions. All 11 players on the pitch are capable of heading the ball, passing the ball, tacking, running around, and scoring goals. Only the goalkeeper has actual special rules. But this doesn't mean that there isn't going to be a striker or two, some midfielders, some defenders, and a goalkeeper on the team. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>4e prevents none of this. And encourages it all. Indeed it's easier for a wizard to flat out tank in 4e than in previous editions. This doesn't mean that some people are less well suited for the task than others.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Pedant: The wizard summoning a wall and the illusionist are both textbook controllers there.</p><p></p><p>The role of Defender doesn't say "This is all this person can do" it says "If you want to specialise in this, choose this role". I've tanked with an Invoker before now (the squishiest class in the game).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. The 4e role is about aptitude and expertise. The fighter and cleric are both <em>better suited</em> to hold the line than a thief is. The role doesn't say "You must do this", it says that "You should be good at this".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Still around in 4e.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>These happen much more in 4e. The 4e fighter that defends the back line by bullying the enemies is a big thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In 4e these normally become Warlords - they have actual mechanics backing what the player pictures their character's expertise is.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which just means that they would be good at defending. Playing a cowardly defender in 4e is just as much a thing as playing a fighter that doesn't like fighting in any edition.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What you [the general h4ters] don't seem to grock is that aptitude matters. And your class has always indicated aptitudes. This is unchanged.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Once more <em>this did not change in 4e.</em></p><p></p><p>[quot]That thinking/preference comes/stems from a video gaming "we need a tank/healer/whatever" mentality and/or, if you like, "game evolution" or whatever you want to call it that is non-threatening/-insulting to the fragile sensibilities oft seen around here.</p></blockquote><p></p><p>This, of course, comes out of D&D and needing a cleric - and a lot of old games being based on D&D.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What is not a fact is to say that4e is <em>in any way</em> different from other editions here. In fact 4e is more flexible because you do not <em>need</em> to protect the wizard. The wizard has a lot more hit points. They don't lose fights to housecats. You do not <em>need</em> a cleric - the healing surge mechanic means that you can work perfectly fine with no one with inspiring abilities or magical healing at all and it doesn't screw up pacing.</p><p></p><p>The simple fact is that for all 4e highlighted the sepecialities people always had they are less important than they ever were.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So does not seeing the simple truth that if 4e changed any of this it was by ensuring that healing was not the exclusive ability of some classes and that the wizard did not lose fights to housecats so although they were squishy there wasn't such a need to protect them.</p><p></p><p>4e makes the aptitudes of characters more explicit than any other edition. This doesn't mean that it forces you to play a certain way. And it certainly doesn't mean that the aptitudes are more skewed to given classes than they were in other editions.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6503353, member: 87792"] And in 4e anyone can get in the way and block the enemy from attacking the wounded. Anyone can do damage. Anyone can bring people back onto their feet. And anyone can disrupt the GM's plans. It is just that you are specifically good at some and not terribly good at others based on your class and choices. This is [I]exactly[/I] the same as in previous editions. (Indeed any 4e character is better able to pick other people up in 4e than in other editions due to the Second Wind and heal rules). 4e roles are like soccer positions. All 11 players on the pitch are capable of heading the ball, passing the ball, tacking, running around, and scoring goals. Only the goalkeeper has actual special rules. But this doesn't mean that there isn't going to be a striker or two, some midfielders, some defenders, and a goalkeeper on the team. 4e prevents none of this. And encourages it all. Indeed it's easier for a wizard to flat out tank in 4e than in previous editions. This doesn't mean that some people are less well suited for the task than others. Pedant: The wizard summoning a wall and the illusionist are both textbook controllers there. The role of Defender doesn't say "This is all this person can do" it says "If you want to specialise in this, choose this role". I've tanked with an Invoker before now (the squishiest class in the game). No. The 4e role is about aptitude and expertise. The fighter and cleric are both [I]better suited[/I] to hold the line than a thief is. The role doesn't say "You must do this", it says that "You should be good at this". Still around in 4e. These happen much more in 4e. The 4e fighter that defends the back line by bullying the enemies is a big thing. In 4e these normally become Warlords - they have actual mechanics backing what the player pictures their character's expertise is. Which just means that they would be good at defending. Playing a cowardly defender in 4e is just as much a thing as playing a fighter that doesn't like fighting in any edition. What you [the general h4ters] don't seem to grock is that aptitude matters. And your class has always indicated aptitudes. This is unchanged. Once more [I]this did not change in 4e.[/I] [quot]That thinking/preference comes/stems from a video gaming "we need a tank/healer/whatever" mentality and/or, if you like, "game evolution" or whatever you want to call it that is non-threatening/-insulting to the fragile sensibilities oft seen around here. [/quote] This, of course, comes out of D&D and needing a cleric - and a lot of old games being based on D&D. What is not a fact is to say that4e is [I]in any way[/I] different from other editions here. In fact 4e is more flexible because you do not [I]need[/I] to protect the wizard. The wizard has a lot more hit points. They don't lose fights to housecats. You do not [I]need[/I] a cleric - the healing surge mechanic means that you can work perfectly fine with no one with inspiring abilities or magical healing at all and it doesn't screw up pacing. The simple fact is that for all 4e highlighted the sepecialities people always had they are less important than they ever were. So does not seeing the simple truth that if 4e changed any of this it was by ensuring that healing was not the exclusive ability of some classes and that the wizard did not lose fights to housecats so although they were squishy there wasn't such a need to protect them. 4e makes the aptitudes of characters more explicit than any other edition. This doesn't mean that it forces you to play a certain way. And it certainly doesn't mean that the aptitudes are more skewed to given classes than they were in other editions. [/QUOTE]
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