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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6504398" data-attributes="member: 67338">1st I am a BIG proponent of expertise not being a needed feat (I really don't want to bog this down long and short I feel higher damage+ more encounter/daily powers as you level and more 1/2 on a miss stuff evened out with less to hit, so where it is always optimized to take it it isn't always needed) however yes I would recommend a new player take expertise because it is a simple feat that adds once and forget. However if a player told me they made the choice to focus on out of combat stuff and took skill focus: Arcana, I would not berate them... great... lets do this then... I really thought the average player saw 8-15th level play to be honest, with few or far between seeing 16+, and as such 13 was a good "High as you needed to worry about" level... I don't think it is the equivilat of level 20 3e, because I doubt many more people saw 20 in 3e then did in 2e, I would say both were the beginning of the end... I did choose it because it was the x5, so not a flaw, it was the thing that gets better (and to be fair I don't remember what level it changed I know x2 at 1st and x5 at 13th)nope... you didn't read what I have to say... my assumption was 90% of fighte you get it at least once (and 10% of fights you don't get it at all) of those 90% maybe 30% you get a second one... more then 2 back stabs in the same fight are rare enough to not really matter (it did happen, but those are the OMG stories we tell, not the average at all)example: One of the guys who I know who still play pathfinder will to this day tell anyone who will listen his story about his elven fighter thief with the anti mage short swords (2 weapon fighter) who back stabbed all 4 enemy spell casters in 1 fight... with improved invisbilty and a cloak of bamfing  yup and this is why one of the hall marks of striker is "Hits hard and not had tricks to negate damage because less hp"so if I hit for 80 damage 1 hit in round 1, then 7 in round 2 and 13 in round 3 for a total of 90 damage, but the fighter hits all three rounds for 30 damage and does 90... you don't see how that is burst damage? it is very front loaded... and in a great circumstance ends the fight much quicker...example: 3 targets have 65hp each team 1: 3 fighters... 3 rounds they take down the targetsteam 2: 3 thieves....1 round all three downteam 3: 2 fighters 1 thief 1st round thief takes his out, two fighter hurt there... round 2 1 fighter and thief take down 2nd, and other fighter hurts his... round 3 third falls  1st of all if what you are saying is true (it atleast has some merit to it I will admit) then 3e and 5e are as guilty of this as 4e, and 4e doesn't stand out any more then 3e or 5e except it tell you on the tin...</blockquote>

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