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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6504481" data-attributes="member: 67338">in my experience about 1/3 of game died by level 9 and 1/3 died by 14th, and the last 3rd rant he spectrum from not getting past 1st to all the way to 20+...but to be honest (not counting a start with high level campaign game like you said) only once we made it to 17th level, and once we made it into the 20es... go back then...I showed my work...  lets do this out then... +2 short sword 1d6+3  avegage 6.5 min 3 and max 9 with x4 that would be 12-36 average 26...  you know when your most likely to hit... when you get +4 and enemy looses it's dex... that is very different then... I can't remember more then a hand full of times in 2e where combat lasted 5 or more rounds, 3 seemed our average so what did thief do in combat? yea, so most fights that PC start are with thief pre stealthed and ones not do take a round to duck into a hiding spot...the only times I played 1e was after playing 3.5 so I'm not sure, but the 2e one (witch I can't remember what made them different) defiantly where low hp, need tricks to avoid hp damage, had the ability to deliver burst damage (aka not every round) so they fit striker... just not as well as the 3e rogue did... the 3e rogue took this little unreliable trick and made it the core of the class... so again if you dis like the striker thief take it up with 3e, 3.5, 4e, and 5e equally... just because one labled it doesn't mean it wasn't in all 4... and all of it was based on the 2e way just expanded on....</blockquote>

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