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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6505254" data-attributes="member: 67338">no the question is what happens to the system...The exact question was at the game level how do you keep that feel... Maybe I should have said "WHat do you do at a rules level for a character who has no reason to know how to sneak attack?,   but you do answer that...so the system works best if I ignore it... OK, well I can ignore the striker feature (sneak attack or backstab) in 1e, 2e, 3e, 4e, or 5e... but of course that isn't the game that's just house ruling and has nothing to do with if there are roles... that would be like if I said "Well I can bring the mark and combat superiority from 4e into the 5e fighter and give him them instead of the extra attacks... that means defender"this entire thread has gone off the rails now... we started with"What are the roles in 5e"and a bunch of people gave their opinions, and I made what is quickly becoming a mistake by saying "Same ones there always was Defender Striker Controller Leader"right away people made sure to tell me how wrong I was those roles never exsisted and never will in 5e... so I tried to explain why I thought they had never changed... and we went around and around and around...but here we are back to ten pages ago or so...The roles are not force on anyone (they weren't in 4e either) they are guides to play the game and help to understand why some classes have some features... my example above is one that came up at my table... and one I heard through out 3e as well. SOme people don't understand what would make a con man or a thief or almost any other non skimisher know just the right places to hit for more damage... wouldn't you think a combat trained soldier and warrior (like a fighter) would be more likely to be able to explote the advantage.  My version is that it is a game conceat, a striker feature from way back that does not fit the "We gave them what makes sense" paradigm... but nothing I say will ever convince any of you.so fine the evil words are gone... nothing in the book explains why anything is there... why can bards and clerics heal but not wizards... reasons... why do all rogue no matter what style learn martial study of landing the right blow when they can, but not any other combat class... it's just simplistic none explained class design...I still stand by my orginal answer... The role didn't change, they are just hidden now instead of out in the open.</blockquote>

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