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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6505273" data-attributes="member: 67338">that's the funny part, this whole thing takes on a life of it's own... I doubt the people from the beging are even all here any more... I say something, someone says something back then I chip in again... and because the edition change and war is such a hot topic sooner or later someone who didn't plan on it sees something and jumps in on one side or another and the whole thing snow balls.I think we stoped actually discussing anything posts ago... and it's worse because somepeople say things new and then get group in as tempers rise... so I am going to try to take a deep breath and start over.I don't want to fight I like discussing the evolution of the game, and we all agree it did evolve...sometimes for good other times not so good... but it changed.yea, but they can also be sign posts for both DMs and Players... and to be honest with a paper and pad game like D&D the important part is you and your DM/players being on the same page... not me here in Connecticut.  yea, I often wonder why the divide the way it was... I mean healing magic in stories and myth is as likely to come from any source...but that's another topic. yup... some of those roles where starting in 1e and basic too from my understandinga lot of there spells that weren't shared (like dispel and most divinations) where buffs or restores but a few good combat...  a lot of the leader role comes from here.again I'll skip shared spells, and yea powerful debuffs, save or dies, crowd control, creation, summon/teleport... by the end of 3e they were all over the place but in the beginning of 2e they had a lot of limits.I often argue with my MMO playing friends that Tanks have big guns... and Fighters were tanks. They were heavy armor heavy weapon and deadly. I honestly rarely saw people play "Meat shields" and often saw "Kick but warriors" back in the day.a lot of the exploration got shared in this area...but again what they gave them for combat was a big hitting hard to get off attack (backstab) later (in 3e) that became more of there place as combat become more important (again 3e)I always got the feeling that druids were just variant clerics... but yea they had more specialized things... using the 2e psionics handbook for my myth and magic game that book was all over the place... I don't think they knew what they wanted to do with it. (I do still have a soft spot for it though in my heart)that not really true... the classes do have combat roles even back then... Clerics (as you point out) don't throw fireballs as a rule, and Wizards don't break enchantments or cure light wounds. Fighter don't position them self for one big shot, they run in and are more reliable...the move to 3e did change a lot (sneak attack doesn't equal back stab) and some classes got big boosts (Bonus spells and spell negatives removed) well other lost ground ( taking penalties to ideritve attacks hurt fighters..._)  flavor and role go together.... sometimes I think some MMO players don't even pay attention to the fluff part...</blockquote>

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