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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nergal Pendragon" data-source="post: 6506426" data-attributes="member: 6777649">I talked earlier about how presentation affects judgement and how that was probably 4E's biggest weakness.Also, I'll note that, from looking at 5E, defender isn't a combat role that seems to exist anymore. And prior to 4E, I can't recall it actually existing much; it seemed to be a combat role you took when everything was going horribly wrong and sacrificing your character was preferable to the other possible outcome. From what I and a lot of players I talked to saw, prior to 4E being a defender in combat probably meant you were going to die. With 5E, it looks like playing a defender means you'll probably die.Now, the interesting thing about prior editions... there were a number of classes that, mechanically, would be equally good in every combat role. 4E kinda did away with that through the focus on primary effectiveness. It's not to say it couldn't be done, but that it was a lot harder. Of course, 4E also made some classes actually effective at combat for once, so this isn't a bad thing.The resulting change in how people talk about tactics in DnD that 4E caused also isn't a bad thing; they're now more aware of the tactical considerations of some decisions and what the primary tactic types are for use in combat. Even if all class can do all combat roles equally, people are now more likely to be aware that they're actually choosing a particular combat role for the situation at hand. This, in turn, means more effective communication between players as to what their characters are actually doing. So if the wizard says they're going striker for this round and they need a leader to back them, the player who is focusing more on a leader-type role can immediately know that they need to stick to the wizard. And instead of the normal twenty minutes this could sometimes take in prior editions, with 4E and now 5E it can take two sentences. This, in turn, helps speed up combat even further because the players are spending less time being OOC to explain the IC.</blockquote>

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