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*Dungeons & Dragons
What are the Roles now?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6507177" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I don't understand your basis for saying this. In the post you quoted I referred to the DMG in which Gygax set out rules implementing his conception of what the various character class roles were/are. Those rules take the form of advancement penalties for playing one's character outside allocated role.</p><p></p><p>I believe that 2nd ed AD&D has something similar in its XP rules (fighters get more XP for killing, thieves for looting, etc) but I don't myself have a copy of the relevant DMG.</p><p></p><p>In 3E, as far as I know, and in 4e, there are no rules that relate advancement to role. Hence my remark that descriptions of roles, in 4e, are merely guidelines. They tell you what your PC might be good at, given its mechanical capabilities.</p><p></p><p>In what sense? Dealing damage in D&D has always been bolted very directly onto the mechanics. And as far as the "healer" role goes, it is absolutely bolted onto the clerical spell mechanics in AD&D. (As [MENTION=49017]Bluenose[/MENTION] pointed out upthread, and which you scorned for reasons that are opaque to me.)</p><p></p><p>And this biographical anecdote is diffrent how? When you play 4e with these guys, do they think of their PCs differently? Or do you not play 4e with them?</p><p></p><p>When I have played Rolemaster o AD&D, some players think of their PCs primarily in terms of mechanical capabilities - this fighter has a shield for defence but lower damage, this fighter has a two-handed sword for maximum offence - and others not. Likewise in 4e - some of my 4e players think in terms of role, but some - especially the wizard/invoker player - very clearly do not. (At least not in 4e terms. In 3E terms his PC is the skill monkey.)</p><p></p><p>Good post, good points, but D&D does have a history of linking role to class at least in part (eg cleric = healer, AD&D thief = something of a non-combatant) and Gygax seems to have seen things this way too, so sometimes it can be hard to prise one off the other.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6507177, member: 42582"] I don't understand your basis for saying this. In the post you quoted I referred to the DMG in which Gygax set out rules implementing his conception of what the various character class roles were/are. Those rules take the form of advancement penalties for playing one's character outside allocated role. I believe that 2nd ed AD&D has something similar in its XP rules (fighters get more XP for killing, thieves for looting, etc) but I don't myself have a copy of the relevant DMG. In 3E, as far as I know, and in 4e, there are no rules that relate advancement to role. Hence my remark that descriptions of roles, in 4e, are merely guidelines. They tell you what your PC might be good at, given its mechanical capabilities. In what sense? Dealing damage in D&D has always been bolted very directly onto the mechanics. And as far as the "healer" role goes, it is absolutely bolted onto the clerical spell mechanics in AD&D. (As [MENTION=49017]Bluenose[/MENTION] pointed out upthread, and which you scorned for reasons that are opaque to me.) And this biographical anecdote is diffrent how? When you play 4e with these guys, do they think of their PCs differently? Or do you not play 4e with them? When I have played Rolemaster o AD&D, some players think of their PCs primarily in terms of mechanical capabilities - this fighter has a shield for defence but lower damage, this fighter has a two-handed sword for maximum offence - and others not. Likewise in 4e - some of my 4e players think in terms of role, but some - especially the wizard/invoker player - very clearly do not. (At least not in 4e terms. In 3E terms his PC is the skill monkey.) Good post, good points, but D&D does have a history of linking role to class at least in part (eg cleric = healer, AD&D thief = something of a non-combatant) and Gygax seems to have seen things this way too, so sometimes it can be hard to prise one off the other. [/QUOTE]
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