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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6510052" data-attributes="member: 67338">see this is "How do we use roles?" question... witch I would love insight and discussion of, but you are using that as an example why the roles aren't there... You say hard coded I say education... well, then would you be ok with a book or series of articles you could ignore that would label things for people who want it?I had the opposite response to it... duiling antodotes has been going on all thread though... but ok, one more time...going with the cleric and the warlord... one of the issue my group has had with D&D for years (2e,3e,3.5 ect) was that very few players felt comfortable playing the religious role... so we had 3 types of games, ones with no healers (aka hard mode) or ones where we didn't role-play the cleric as anything other then a fighter/mage rp with different spells.   the warlord, the spirit shaman, the Ardent, and the bard all got play, even the ruine priest... the same players that played cleric from time to time did play one or two, but we saw atleast 2 of each build of warlord.by making a non religious healer it was a HUGE leap forward... for us.I agree with the beginning of this...here is what I would love to see:Monks are martial warriors that use unarmed combat better then most, they are easiest and default to being primary strikers with secondary controlers. Depending on your sub class you can add a divine or psionic flair to them that would CHange X Y and J. There main combat class feature is A and was designed to be used as B.The default background (if you use that optional rule) is X and makes you a Y, and other good options are A and B Rangers are Martial warrirors and nature casters, that travel the wilderness and are expert woodsmen. They are easiest and default to being primary striker secondary controlers. Depending on your sub class you can add a divine.nature or more martial flair to them that would CHange X Y and J. There main combat class feature is A and was designed to be used as B.The default background (if you use that optional rule) is X and makes you a Y, and other good options are A and B</blockquote>

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