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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6511091" data-attributes="member: 48965">The comparison is that the swordmage and fighter "defend" mechanically in totally different manners and yet are both considered defenders...right?  You're moving goalposts, and I'm sure you know I'm not claiming that hit points and AC changed for Wizards in 5e.  My point is that AC and ht points are not the only competencies of a class that could be used to create a defensive chatacter... you don't get to pick and choose which class competencies are valid and which aren't.  If I can accomplish similar outcomes (in a broad sense like the swordmage vs. fighter) then what difference does the how make? If the mechanical way something operates is orthogonal to roles then why are you specifically calling out high AC and hit points as the Defender characteristics?  Shouldn't you be looking at the classes as a whole?  And if so why can't the wizard's abilities naturally funnel towards defending the party?   As to the rest of what you wrote... I don't want to get into a discussion of whether I feel 4e character's performed rather distinct functions (though I will note that I find it interesting that on the one hand it's argued that 4e classes have a vastness of flexibility and crossover potential most don't realize yet on the other hand they perform distinct from one another).Why would the wizard not be doing anything else?  Thematic differences, different fictional grounding (with their own unique drawbacks, challenges and advantages), different mechanical systems which can be more or less fun for a particular player and so on.   Nice try with the samey comment I thought that was one of those comments that was taboo with 4e fans.  To answer your question outside of the differences cited above, no.  Ultimately (and this IMO is one of the greatest strengths of 5e) neither the fighter or the wizard is, by default, a defender-like character but either can easily step into the role if need be... along with numerous other roles throughout the span of a campaign or even a single adventure... like the controller fighter I talked about earlier or a striker wizard.</blockquote>

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