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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nergal Pendragon" data-source="post: 6511972" data-attributes="member: 6777649">Okay, you KNOW you're getting tired when you go hunting for two laugh clicks you made and discover they were placed on the wrong posts on the entirely wrong thread. Last post, then bed.I can see your point in that, and that's one way I would play a fighter as a controller.I personally didn't have the same experience with prior to 3E, but I have to say it's one of the things I'm glad for. The idea you are no longer simply sacrificing a character to be a defender... That is more of how it should have been.And, also, I did some math. I managed to get the AC of the fighter as high as 33 and the AC of the wizard as high as 32. I suspect 32-33 are pretty much the top of what you can expect for PCs and most will be below that. Note this uses a LOT of magic items to accomplish. I'll post the math on this tomorrow, after I've slept some.It shows they both can accomplish the high ACs on about par. Which is rather surprising; I was expecting the Fighter to beat the wizard by a lot more than just one point of AC. So, I'm guessing the wizard's major limit on acting as a defender isn't AC, but their HP. Which is why they need spells to eliminate the capacity of damage to even reach them to compensate.</blockquote>