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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 6514973" data-attributes="member: 957">This conversation has been repeated many times before.&nbsp; 4E fans are absolutely free and welcome to embrace that gamist approach to it.&nbsp; As always, play what you like.The mistake I see over and over is jumping from &quot;this works good for me in my games&quot; to &quot;this is a truism for all games everywhere&quot;.I'd say that a guy capable of absorbing/avoiding/rolling with several swings of a giant's club being so worn down that the next goblin to come along could take him out with one stab is &quot;significant&quot;.&nbsp; And I also don't see D&amp;D as enjoyed at is best from a pure gamist perspective.&nbsp; In movies, books, and TV shows the action heroes are always getting the crap beat out of them.&nbsp; To look at them as see them interact with their surroundings when NOT toe-to-toe with the bad guy, they are beat up and hurting.&nbsp; And they need to recover.&nbsp; But then they get in a fight and they perform at full effectiveness for just long enough.&nbsp; This is a classic trope.&nbsp; For the mechanical part of D&amp;D, that classic trope is important.&nbsp; Being able to put out just as much combat effectiveness as ever with 1 HP left has fit that duty since the first versions of the game.And the idea that characters are still &quot;beat down&quot; as GWforPowerGamers put it, has always been obviously understood by everyone I ever played with.So, again, if you don't like it that way then there is no reason to expect anything different.&nbsp;&nbsp; But when you start putting your preference out there as a truism, you are showing some serious blinders on your perspective.And if you are leavign that part of the narrative out of the game, IMO you are missing out on a whole lot of the fun.&nbsp; But that is your call.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 6514973, member: 957"] This conversation has been repeated many times before. 4E fans are absolutely free and welcome to embrace that gamist approach to it. As always, play what you like. The mistake I see over and over is jumping from "this works good for me in my games" to "this is a truism for all games everywhere". I'd say that a guy capable of absorbing/avoiding/rolling with several swings of a giant's club being so worn down that the next goblin to come along could take him out with one stab is "significant". And I also don't see D&D as enjoyed at is best from a pure gamist perspective. In movies, books, and TV shows the action heroes are always getting the crap beat out of them. To look at them as see them interact with their surroundings when NOT toe-to-toe with the bad guy, they are beat up and hurting. And they need to recover. But then they get in a fight and they perform at full effectiveness for just long enough. This is a classic trope. For the mechanical part of D&D, that classic trope is important. Being able to put out just as much combat effectiveness as ever with 1 HP left has fit that duty since the first versions of the game. And the idea that characters are still "beat down" as GWforPowerGamers put it, has always been obviously understood by everyone I ever played with. So, again, if you don't like it that way then there is no reason to expect anything different. But when you start putting your preference out there as a truism, you are showing some serious blinders on your perspective. And if you are leavign that part of the narrative out of the game, IMO you are missing out on a whole lot of the fun. But that is your call. [/QUOTE]

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